Website offering to sell virgins shut down.

[Davita]

'Interference' in Indonesian affairs by foreigners is limited, particularly in regard to religion, and is correct and proper.

However, just maybe...those mocking and poking fun at the hypocrisy that creates the practice of Nikah Siri and its abuse, at every opportunity, may have more objective results on Indonesian attitudes to this issue than those professing their moral superiority, but doing nothing, can achieve.

 

[atlantis]

If you are not Indonesian and don't pay taxes, or even if you do, you are a visitor to Indonesia and as such cannot influence the laws or behavior of the citizenry.

That is a myth VocalNeal.
Mixed marriage lobbies have influenced national laws as well as ex WNI. Who do you think have lobbied the government/DPR so that UU 6/2011 radically changed the situation of these foreigners having families here (spouse, parents, kids...etc). Many of those involved were neither paying taxes in Indonesia, nor being Indonesian or even residing in Indonesia. Yet, they had a strong interest and motivation to get the law modified and they succeeded.

Since July 2016 did we had any execution of convicts in Indonesia? Nope, despite the fact that there was a lot of names on a list who should have been executed in accordance with the sentences given and despite the promises made by President Jokowi. Why do you think that there is this informal moratorium? Do you think that Joko has stepped on the brake to satisfy his public opinion or to appease the world opinion?

This is the 21st century VocalNeal. rare are the countries which can pass their own laws without having to care about what the world think.

 

[Nimbus]

It is so absurd that I was tempted to crack a joke, but then I'm the kind of guy prone to gallows humor.

 

[Puspawarna]

those professing their moral superiority

I don't see expressing distaste over lame jokes about serious matters as "professing moral superiority" anymore than I would accuse you of professing YOUR moral superiority over my point of view because you object to my ideas.

We're all just expressing ourselves. If there is a moral dimension to what I profess, and you disagree with me, then by definition you've entered the moral sphere as well.

 

[Daniel50]

Oh..................is it against the law to buy virgins. Well it is a good thing I check in with this site, to stay current.

 

[atlantis]

'Interference' in Indonesian affairs by foreigners is limited, particularly in regard to religion, and is correct and proper.

May I ask you what does Nikah Siri and the auctioning of underage girl's virginity have to do with religion?

Should you ignore it, Nikah Siri as little to do with Islam and many Indonesian would feel offended by it, especially Indonesian women. Many Muslim would also tell you it's haram.

In a previous post I was saying that a few years ago a draft to forbid explicitly nikah siri was discussed. One of it's major back up was Nahdlatul Ulama (albeit they were favoring administrative sanction over criminal sanction against those who would contravene).

 

[Davita]

May I ask you what does Nikah Siri and the auctioning of underage girl's virginity have to do with religion?

Should you ignore it, Nikah Siri as little to do with Islam and many Indonesian would feel offended by it, especially Indonesian women. Many Muslim would also tell you it's haram.

In a previous post I was saying that a few years ago a draft to forbid explicitly nikah siri was discussed. One of it's major back up was Nahdlatul Ulama.

Dafluffs OP said...."The website (Nikkasirri.com) named after the practice of marrying in a Muslim ceremony while not actually registering the marriage with the authorities, purportedly offers virgin for sale."
His 2nd post said..."For those unaware, nikah siri is the practice to perform a Muslim religious marriage while avoiding to actually register the marriage with the proper authorities."

If you have a disagreement over whether Nikah Siri has anything to do with religion I suggest you take it up with him.

 

[Davita]

I don't see expressing distaste over lame jokes about serious matters as "professing moral superiority" anymore than I would accuse you of professing YOUR moral superiority over my point of view because you object to my ideas.

We're all just expressing ourselves. If there is a moral dimension to what I profess, and you disagree with me, then by definition you've entered the moral sphere as well.

You are absolutely correct but, when quoting my post, you said....." let's just say I tend to have a higher opinion of people who take these matters seriously than I do of people who think they are amusing.'
That equates to taking a moral superiority attitude in my book.

 

[vocalneal]

His 2nd post said..."For those unaware, nikah siri is the practice to perform a Muslim religious marriage while avoiding to actually register the marriage with the proper authorities."

The vast majority of "weddings" in Thailand happen at village level. Most don't even bother to register with the government.

In the west a church wedding has nothing to do with the government and during the ceremony is the same as, say, Thai or Indonesian where the families of the betrothed and their friends witness the betrothal. The difference only becomes apparent because the Church is organized to the point where one can fill in the "registration" forms in the vestry.

Getting married at a registry office is a government or sectarian procedure that bypasses the village and religious ritual.

It is so absurd that I was tempted to crack a joke, but then I'm the kind of guy prone to gallows humor.

You are too kind? The world is a very bad place and many sad and distasteful things that happen everyday.

Someone more famous than me said "'Life is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel."

 

[Davita]

Re; Post # 29 by vocalneal
My friend...you have quoted me in your post above but used a quote I copied from Dafluff...this causes confusion as if infers I was the original poster. You should have quoted Dafluff directly to assert your point...not me.

 

[Puspawarna]

Someone more famous than me said "'Life is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel."

What a remarkably convenient aphorism for you.

Someone once told Kurt Vonnegut that his writing did the opposite of sugar-coating bitter pills - that he provided a cynical/detached coating but inside was an undeniable sweetness (the feeling part, if you will). Vonnegut is my hero in this regard.

 

[Puspawarna]

That equates to taking a moral superiority attitude in my book.

Good thing you are superior to that!

 

[Nimbus]

You are too kind? The world is a very bad place and many sad and distasteful things that happen everyday.

Someone more famous than me said "'Life is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel."

It's not as simple as your famous guy make it out to be, I'm afraid. I'm a rational human being, which means I think and feel, not necessarily in that order.

Humor has long been used as a coping mechanism. In an authoritarian state like the Soviet Union or New Order Indonesia, open disagreement could land you in jail (or worse), so you expressed your disgust with humor. Living in a red state surrounded by Trump supporters, humor is one way of expressing my frustration without directly insulting people. It is about feelings.

Back to the online virgin market. There is something both very dark and very funny about the fact that it had 2700 men registered but not one woman, at least for me.

 

[Davita]

Good thing you are superior to that!

Damn right...

 

[Puspawarna]

Damn right...

Psst...wanna go hang out somewhere and congratulate ourselves on how much better we are than the rest of those fools out there?

 

[Anglian]

[QUOTE="Nimbus, post: 39446

Back to the online virgin market. There is something both very dark and very funny about the fact that it had 2700 men registered but not one woman, at least for me.[/QUOTE]

Yes I think that's why the humour, it is a sad reflection on some men, it's seems Indonesian women have more sense than the men

 

[Davita]

Psst...wanna go hang out somewhere and congratulate ourselves on how much better we are than the rest of those fools out there?

Your place or mine...I have probably the last vestige of Bali's Hatten wine before the volcano swallows all the grapes in its path. Soon Hatten Rosé will be vintage and I'll be popular....