The drab hand of religions.

[harryopal1]

It seems religious zealotry functions on the assumption that anything that makes a woman look attractive becomes a threat to men who evidently are so easily whipped into a sexual frenzy that men have to be protected.
In Somalia in the 80s one of the really delightful things about travelling in remote areas was that you could come across Somali women, covered head to foot but with delightfully colourful diracs with a colourful garbassar thrown over the shoulders. Just watching the news about first elections in Somalia for 60 years. Sad to see that now the women wear dull brown and black hijabs. And of course most Somali women are brutally circumcized to ensure that thought of sex will make them less likely to seduce us vulnerable men.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

In terms of the clothing, isn't that pretty much what has happened in Indonesia as well?

 

[harryopal1]

In terms of the clothing, isn't that pretty much what has happened in Indonesia as well?

Rarely see the sarong kebaya these days and it is such an elegant form of dress. At the beach it is hard to see women wearing black burkas, the men in shorts and perhaps shirtless without seeing this as a form of oppression.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Yes, so many Indonesian women seem to wear such drab colourless clothes, and jilbabs that don't even look clean. Looking at YouTube videos of how they used to look a few decades ago is rather sad. I saw a bunch of full burka wearing ladies playing padel recently - wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry!

 

[Hawk256]

It almost sounds like you two are upset because you can't look at their body shape anymore. If a woman want's to wear modest clothing for her religion, what is the problem? If a Muslim man is dressed properly, you shouldn't see his knees or his belly button. Them's the rules and you don't have to follow them or even like them. I have seen women in full makeup with no hijab and short skirt go into a musholla and change into proper clothes to pray. That is her choice no one is making her dress a certain way. The women wear a hijab (or not) because the want to and/or believe it's a religious requirement. Leave it at that and go to the beach in another country if you want to see thongs.

 

[Balifrog]

It almost sounds like you two are upset because you can't look at their body shape anymore. If a woman want's to wear modest clothing for her religion, what is the problem? If a Muslim man is dressed properly, you shouldn't see his knees or his belly button. Them's the rules and you don't have to follow them or even like them. I have seen women in full makeup with no hijab and short skirt go into a musholla and change into proper clothes to pray. That is her choice no one is making her dress a certain way. The women wear a hijab (or not) because the want to and/or believe it's a religious requirement. Leave it at that and go to the beach in another country if you want to see thongs.

For once I disagree with you....
For me Bali is the only place I would live in Indonesia, at least you can see girls, including Indos surfing in thongs.
The "modest" dressing...not for me.

And I disagree with this as well...it is the religious and family pressure that makes her dress that way.

That is her choice no one is making her dress a certain way

 

[harryopal1]

It almost sounds like you two are upset because you can't look at their body shape anymore. If a woman want's to wear modest clothing for her religion, what is the problem? If a Muslim man is dressed properly, you shouldn't see his knees or his belly button. Them's the rules and you don't have to follow them or even like them. I have seen women in full makeup with no hijab and short skirt go into a musholla and change into proper clothes to pray. That is her choice no one is making her dress a certain way. The women wear a hijab (or not) because the want to and/or believe it's a religious requirement. Leave it at that and go to the beach in another country if you want to see thongs.

Personally I see nothing wrong with appreciating beauty in a woman whether it is the hair or just simple elegance. I am not upset that I can't see the body shape of the woman at the beach dressed in a burka. It just looks hot and not comfortable and I just feel sorry for them.

 

[Hawk256]

For once I disagree with you....
For me Bali is the only place I would live in Indonesia, at least you can see girls, including Indos surfing in thongs.
The "modest" dressing...not for me.

And I disagree with this as well...it is the religious and family pressure that makes her dress that way.

I knew this post would wake you up. It's meant mostly as humor but also makes a point. I disagree that women are being forced to do this. Maybe some feel some peer of familial pressure but I don't think that those numbers are high. I have socialized with many, many Muslims over the past 8 years, have ask a lot of questions in one on one conversations and never heard anything other than they are proud and comfortable to wear a hijab. YMMV but it's not about me or you anyway. It's about them.

 

[Balifrog]

I knew this post would wake you up. It's meant mostly as humor but also makes a point. I disagree that women are being forced to do this. Maybe some feel some peer of familial pressure but I don't think that those numbers are high. I have socialized with many, many Muslims over the past 8 years, have ask a lot of questions in one on one conversations and never heard anything other than they are proud and comfortable to wear a hijab. YMMV but it's not about me or you anyway. It's about them.

Well, I consider that if one is a religious person, one will follow the rules of his/her religion wherever they live.
I mean most places you live in the world, specially in big cities, there is always a church, a mosque, a temple ...
I have lived in HKG 8 years, hanged out with several Indos and Philipinas. Never saw one of the Indos going to the mosque or pura. And this includes my Miss.
But when back in the village they suddenly become religious......pressure of the environment and family. As simple as that.
When in Bali my Miss never visits a Pura, but she has a short prayer twice a week at home.
Same for one of the nieces in the family... when in the village, follows the elder family members to the temple. When in Bali it's more the cafés and clubs...

I must say that Philipinas for that are more strict. Well, morning at church and afternoon / evening in the clubs....

I don't complain, it suits me fine ! The opposite would have meant end of story.

Note : I myself is not a religious person, even if I follow traditions.

But each to his own. Like for the food !

 

[pantaiema]

For once I disagree with you....
For me Bali is the only place I would live in Indonesia, at least you can see girls, including Indos surfing in thongs.
The "modest" dressing...not for me.

And I disagree with this as well...it is the religious and family pressure that makes her dress that way.

This Indonesian girl makes a lot of money.

Intan culess

Hi it’s Me! Intan Cules 🩷

www.youtube.com

Women like this are less likely to be exploited to join political demonstrations in exchange for pocket money and/or boxed meals by groups that manipulate religion for their own agendas. Just look at what happened to 'Ahok' (Basuki Tjahaja Purnama). During his trial, massive demonstrations among the largest in Indonesia’s history were organised specifically to pressure the judiciary, demanding his arrest and punishment on blasphemy charges.

How much money, does the people, women in pesantren (santriwati in boarding schools) make ?

And did people still remember the collapse of boarding schools building in East Java ?? You do not need to be a structural Engineer to understand why the building like this collapse.

No apology and no answers: parents in agony amid search for children trapped in Indonesia school collapse

Officials say 59 people, mostly young male students, remain trapped in collapsed school in Sidoarjo amid growing questions about the quality of its construction

www.theguardian.com

 

[harryopal1]

That's an awful lot of posing. I wonder if she poses in her sleep?

 

[pantaiema]

Them's the rules and you don't have to follow them or even like them. I have seen women in full makeup with no hijab and short skirt go into a musholla and change into proper clothes to pray. That is her choice no one is making her dress a certain way. The women wear a hijab (or not) because the want to and/or believe it's a religious requirement. Leave it at that and go to the beach in another country if you want to see thongs.

Is there any law in Indonesia about people who claim they want to ‘meet God’ and end up take other people with them, killing others in a suicide bombing? It’s worth noting that Indonesian police have acknowledged that a reasonable number of people involved in suicide bombings came from a particular religious boarding schools.

Leave it at that and go to the beach in another country if you want to see thongs.

And why should people have to follow someone else’s rules just because of how others believe people should dress? Is there any other religions in Indonesia that actually forbids wearing 'thongs' in the beach?

And keep in mind, Indonesia officially recognises multiple religions, they’re protected by the constitution, even though there have been several attempt from some group of people keep trying to change that.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Women only wear these very hot and uncomfortable clothes because they are under intense family pressure and risk of being socially shamed. Anyone who claims they do it out of their own free will, or to try and impress some kind of sky creature, is lying. I have seen with my own eyes what happens in the extended family, and the whole process from early childhood is very clear.

 

[Hawk256]

Women only wear these very hot and uncomfortable clothes because they are under intense family pressure and risk of being socially shamed. Anyone who claims they do it out of their own free will, or to try and impress some kind of sky creature, is lying. I have seen with my own eyes what happens in the extended family, and the whole process from early childhood is very clear.

I promise you my wife is not a liar and neither are any of the women in her family. You can never deal in absoluttes.

 

[pantaiema]

Women only wear these very hot and uncomfortable clothes because they are under intense family pressure and risk of being socially shamed. Anyone who claims they do it out of their own free will, or to try and impress some kind of sky creature, is lying. I have seen with my own eyes what happens in the extended family, and the whole process from early childhood is very clear.

This is indeed the case. I have observed many instances of Indonesians who travel overseas for holidays or education. While in Indonesia, they wear a burka and cover their faces, leaving only their eyes visible; however, when they travel or study abroad, they remove these coverings entirely.

The conclusion is evident: some (probably many) do not wear it by personal choice, but rather due to pressure from society, some family members etc

 

[Hawk256]

Is there any law in Indonesia about people who claim they want to ‘meet God’ and end up killing others in a suicide bombing? It’s worth noting that Indonesian police have acknowledged that a reasonable number of people involved in suicide bombings came from a particular religious boarding schools.


And why should people have to follow someone else’s rules just because of how others believe people should dress? Is there any religion in Indonesia that actually forbids wearing 'thongs' in the beach?

And keep in mind, Indonesia officially recognises multiple religions, they’re protected by the constitution, even though there have been several attempt from some group of people keep trying to change that.

All Muslims are not extremists. All religions have some extremists. Maybe you have heard of Jonestown or the Spanish Inquisition? The only time a killer gets their religion revealed is when they are a Muslim. Clearly Islamophobia. Living in Indonesia and complaining about Muslims is like living in Spain and complaining because everyone speaks Spanish. Now prepare your half page response which I will not be responding to. I've said what I need to say on the matter.

 

[Pak Tani]

This is indeed the case. I have observed many instances of Indonesians who travel overseas for holidays or education. While in Indonesia, they wear a burka and cover their faces, leaving only their eyes visible; however, when they travel or study abroad, they remove these coverings entirely.

The conclusion is evident: some (probably many) do not wear it by personal choice, but rather due to pressure from society, some family members etc

In your conclusion, how did you weigh in the pressure these women were experiencing from the western society to remove their islamic dress?

 

[pantaiema]

In your conclusion, how did you weigh in the pressure these women were experiencing from THE WESTERN SOCIETY to remove their islamic dress?

Very weird way of drawing conclusion.
Also did I ever say the highlighted bit above ?

In Indonesia, wearing a burkha may not always be a voluntary decision, but rather the result of pressure from society, close circles, or family. However, when travelling abroad for longer stays such as for educational purpose, extended holidays, or gap years, individuals will gain more freedom to express themselves without being judged pressurised by society.

When some individuals choose to remove these coverings entirely while abroad, it may suggest that their decision to wear them in Indonesia was influenced by social or pressure form some family member rather than being fully voluntary.

 

[Bob]

This Indonesian girl makes a lot of money.

Intan culess

Hi it’s Me! Intan Cules 🩷

www.youtube.com

Women like this are less likely to be exploited to join political demonstrations in exchange for pocket money and/or boxed meals by groups that manipulate religion for their own agendas. Just look at what happened to 'Ahok' (Basuki Tjahaja Purnama). During his trial, massive demonstrations among the largest in Indonesia’s history were organised specifically to pressure the judiciary, demanding his arrest and punishment on blasphemy charges.

How much money, does the people, women in pesantren (santriwati in boarding schools) make ?

And did people still remember the collapse of boarding schools building in East Java ?? You do not need to be a structural Engineer to understand why the building like this collapse.

No apology and no answers: parents in agony amid search for children trapped in Indonesia school collapse

Officials say 59 people, mostly young male students, remain trapped in collapsed school in Sidoarjo amid growing questions about the quality of its construction

www.theguardian.com

I knew this post would wake you up. It's meant mostly as humor but also makes a point. I disagree that women are being forced to do this. Maybe some feel some peer of familial pressure but I don't think that those numbers are high. I have socialized with many, many Muslims over the past 8 years, have ask a lot of questions in one on one conversations and never heard anything other than they are proud and comfortable to wear a hijab. YMMV but it's not about me or you anyway. It's about them.

My experience is similar. In Singapore it's pretty much completely up to the woman, and most choose to wear. In Indonesia it's mainly free choice but some families and areas are more conformist than others. Malaysia's a notch more conformist. In France I've heard women say that they'd prefer to wear a jilbab at work but feel pressured to not do so. And in the US they wear or don't per their own preference.

 

[Bob]

This Indonesian girl makes a lot of money.

Intan culess

Hi it’s Me! Intan Cules 🩷

www.youtube.com

Women like this are less likely to be exploited to join political demonstrations in exchange for pocket money and/or boxed meals by groups that manipulate religion for their own agendas. Just look at what happened to 'Ahok' (Basuki Tjahaja Purnama). During his trial, massive demonstrations among the largest in Indonesia’s history were organised specifically to pressure the judiciary, demanding his arrest and punishment on blasphemy charges.

How much money, does the people, women in pesantren (santriwati in boarding schools) make ?

And did people still remember the collapse of boarding schools building in East Java ?? You do not need to be a structural Engineer to understand why the building like this collapse.

No apology and no answers: parents in agony amid search for children trapped in Indonesia school collapse

Officials say 59 people, mostly young male students, remain trapped in collapsed school in Sidoarjo amid growing questions about the quality of its construction

www.theguardian.com

Good for her I guess but is she contributing to society or learning anything worthwhile by doing that?
What do you think motivated those demonstrations against Ahok? Could it have been his favoritism to certain players?
How much money do students in any boarding school make? Do the kids in Catholic school in Flores have money market accounts?
I hate to break it to you but a lot of houses of worship here of various religions aren't engineered well.