How do you guys invest?

[jstar]

Is anyone here investing in individual stocks in Indonesia?

Only my spouse -for obvious reasons- is. She likes the fact the stock prices are, in absolute numbers, so ridiculously low, that you can get in easily.

But remember the trading halt in March?

I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole. Even investments in serious companies as Unilever can not be trusted. There’s a huge manipulation and the use of inside information is common. Not to mention possible boycotts of foreign companies, political unrest, huge currency fluctuations, a not a very good work ethos and natural disasters.

If I have to; over here better deposito and mutual funds.

 

[pantaiema]

Only my spouse -for obvious reasons- is. She likes the fact the stock prices are, in absolute numbers, so ridiculously low, that you can get in easily.

But remember the trading halt in March?

I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole. Even investments in serious companies as Unilever can not be trusted. There’s a huge manipulation and the use of inside information is common. Not to mention possible boycotts of foreign companies, political unrest, huge currency fluctuations, a not a very good work ethos and natural disasters.

If I have to; over here better deposito and mutual funds.

I personally agree with this.

It’s extremely rare to find cases like Jiwasraya, Asabri, and Bumiputra anywhere else in the world. In these scandals, the regulator, the stock exchange, former company directors, individuals from the police and even army generals were all involved in collusion. The courts have already confirmed these crimes, with many parties sentenced to prison. These events highlight just how risky it can be to invest in individual stocks in Indonesia. This is not pump & dump case but severe collusion where all party in collusion get their shares. Pump & Dump schemes can sometimes be suspected/detected by experienced analysts or investors. However a severe collusion of individuals across institutions in Indonesia such as the cases above are almost unimaginable, unless you are the party involved in the collusion itself.

On top of that, there are issues like share theft (post #623) and irregular cases such as the BCA public company takeover; once valued at around Rp200T but acquired by conglomerates for only about Rp5T just a few years later (post #637). Imagine being one of the early investors, you purchase the shares when they were valued at Rp200T, watching the company’s value plummeted from Rp200T to Rp5T..

But I think IHSG is ok, as there are almost 1,000 number of stocks in the index.
Personnel opinion, Not a financial advise.

 

[Teabag]

Do we have krypto traders here? I would like to here your selection of coins for the coming bullrun and do you SPOT hodl or future trading?

 

[pantaiema]

Another case of potential investment fraud. This case have been reported to the police, so just wait and see the outcome.
People Shares in Mirae's Account Suddenly Disappear, Losing IDR 200 Billion

https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/marke...l-duit-nasabah-mirae-sekuritas-lenyap-rp-71-m OJK Boss Opens Up About Mirae Sekuritas Customers' Money Disappearing IDR 71 Billion

In the past there was also cases where people shares were allocated to other people mysteriously and I have share the link about this.

 

[make_batik_great_again]

I personally agree with this.

It’s extremely rare to find cases like Jiwasraya, Asabri, and Bumiputra anywhere else in the world. In these scandals, the regulator, the stock exchange, former company directors, individuals from the police and even army generals were all involved in collusion. The courts have already confirmed these crimes, with many parties sentenced to prison. These events highlight just how risky it can be to invest in individual stocks in Indonesia. This is not pump & dump case but severe collusion where all party in collusion get their shares. Pump & Dump schemes can sometimes be suspected/detected by experienced analysts or investors. However a severe collusion of individuals across institutions in Indonesia such as the cases above are almost unimaginable, unless you are the party involved in the collusion itself.

On top of that, there are issues like share theft (post #623) and irregular cases such as the BCA public company takeover; once valued at around Rp200T but acquired by conglomerates for only about Rp5T just a few years later (post #637). Imagine being one of the early investors, you purchase the shares when they were valued at Rp200T, watching the company’s value plummeted from Rp200T to Rp5T..

But I think IHSG is ok, as there are almost 1,000 number of stocks in the index.
Personnel opinion, Not a financial advise.

Correct me please if I am wrong:

The Jiwasraya, Asabri, and Bumiputra cases were serious corruption scandals, but they involved state-owned insurance entities rather than typical publicly listed operating companies. These events point to governance weaknesses in specific institutions, not to the entire Indonesian equity market. Comparable corporate scandals have also occurred in developed markets, so this risk is not unique to Indonesia. In practice, the highest risks are concentrated in small-cap stocks, maybe also politically connected firms, and speculative trading. Large Indonesian blue-chip companies generally have long track records, reputable auditors, and broad institutional ownership. Issues such as the BCA case are often cited without sufficient historical context, particularly the Asian Financial Crisis.

I would not agree with the statement that the stock market in Indonesia is not trustworthy. This conclusion is too general. In my view, major blue-chip companies are relatively safe from large-scale scandals, and classic pump-and-dump schemes are unlikely in these stocks. Small-cap stocks, however, should be approached with caution unless one has detailed company-specific knowledge. Diversification and long-term, index-based strategies can further reduce these risks for retail investors.

 

[make_batik_great_again]

Another case of potential investment fraud. This case have been reported to the police, so just wait and see the outcome.
People Shares in Mirae's Account Suddenly Disappear, Losing IDR 200 Billion

https://www.cnbcindonesia.com/marke...l-duit-nasabah-mirae-sekuritas-lenyap-rp-71-m OJK Boss Opens Up About Mirae Sekuritas Customers' Money Disappearing IDR 71 Billion

In the past there was also cases where people shares were allocated to other people mysteriously and I have share the link about this.

Let’s wait for the outcome of the investigation, as the root cause has not yet been clearly established. Based on current information, this appears to be an isolated case rather than a system-wide issue. Personally, I would prefer to use brokers affiliated with large, well-known banks, such as BCA Sekuritas, which generally have stronger controls and oversight.

 

[pantaiema]

Correct me please if I am wrong:

The Jiwasraya, Asabri, and Bumiputra cases were serious corruption scandals, but they involved state-owned insurance entities rather than typical publicly listed operating companies. These events point to governance weaknesses in specific institutions, not to the entire Indonesian equity market. Comparable corporate scandals have also occurred in developed markets, so this risk is not unique to Indonesia. In practice, the highest risks are concentrated in small-cap stocks, maybe also politically connected firms, and speculative trading. Large Indonesian blue-chip companies generally have long track records, reputable auditors, and broad institutional ownership. Issues such as the BCA case are often cited without sufficient historical context, particularly the Asian Financial Crisis.

I would not agree with the statement that the stock market in Indonesia is not trustworthy. This conclusion is too general. In my view, major blue-chip companies are relatively safe from large-scale scandals, and classic pump-and-dump schemes are unlikely in these stocks. Small-cap stocks, however, should be approached with caution unless one has detailed company-specific knowledge. Diversification and long-term, index-based strategies can further reduce these risks for retail investors.

Cases such as ASABRI, Jiwasraya, and Bumiputera are not merely instances of large-scale corruption. Funds collected by these companies were deliberately channelled into fraudulent investments in the stock market.

What makes these scandals particularly troubling is the breadth of involvement. Nearly all parties appear to be implicated, including the internal people in the stock exchange, regulatory bodies, the court, judges, etc. They were all colluding. I am not aware of any other country where so many institutions were entangled in a single manipulation scandal.

Although savings are formally safeguarded under the LPS, this protection does not cover losses arising from internal manipulation or collusion involving individuals across multiple institutions. What happens when your investment suddenly disappear from the book, due to internal accounting, manipulation, or they suddenly restrict access to your fund, saving. In this thread, there are cases in which people reported that their assets vanished due to internal manipulation, or that their shares were abruptly reassigned to other parties. This could happen to anyone and that person could be you.

Although the probability of such events may be low, in investment terms any risks must be justified by higher returns to compensate for the exposure being taken.

This is just a personal opinion, please do your own research and make your own decision. For those with no alternatives, they are forced to bite the bullet, aren't they. This, in my view, explains why access to major stock exchanges such as NASDAQ, NYSE, and the LSE is restricted inside the country, as without such controls, capital flight would likely be severe.

 

[harryopal1]

It seems any entity involving large amounts of money is like a dead body attracting blow flies. the case involving Najib in Malaysia is one example and the ease with which AI and hacking are able to misuse the internet seems to me to make any investment using the internet precarious. Invest by all means in the hope of making good profits but be prepared to lose the lot.

 

[pantaiema]

It seems any entity involving large amounts of money is like a dead body attracting blow flies. the case involving Najib in Malaysia is one example and the ease with which AI and hacking are able to misuse the internet seems to me to make any investment using the internet precarious. Invest by all means in the hope of making good profits but be prepared to lose the lot.
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This is what is commonly referred to as the risk vs reward trade off. People still need to invest, at the very least to preserve the value of their money against inflation.

The issue arises because some individuals continue to believe that earning returns of 30-60% per month is realistic. These are often the people who end up falling victim to Ponzi or pyramid schemes. Indonesia saw several high-profile cases around 2–4 years ago, such as Binomo, Net89, ATG, DNA Pro, Viral Blast, etc.

For perspective, the most successful trader in history, Jim Simons, achieved returns of around 60% per year (not per month) at his peak. Renowned investors like Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch have averaged well below 30% annually over the long term.

Unfortunately, many people believe they can outperform these legendary figures, which makes them especially vulnerable to scammers.

 

[Balifrog]

This is what is commonly referred to as the risk vs reward trade off. People still need to invest, at the very least to preserve the value of their money against inflation.

The issue arises because some individuals continue to believe that earning returns of 30-60% per month is realistic. These are often the people who end up falling victim to Ponzi or pyramid schemes. Indonesia saw several high-profile cases around 2–4 years ago, such as Binomo, Net89, ATG, DNA Pro, Viral Blast, etc.

For perspective, the most successful trader in history, Jim Simons, achieved returns of around 60% per year (not per month) at his peak. Renowned investors like Warren Buffett and Peter Lynch have averaged well below 30% annually over the long term.

Unfortunately, many people believe they can outperform these legendary figures, which makes them especially vulnerable to scammers.

Spot on.
Personally I play a bit on the NYSE.