Mobil Rakyat...new cars

[jstar]

The IIMS 2023 will be held next week in Jakarta.

The participating car manufacturers are Audi, BMW, Citroen, Chery, Daihatsu, DFSK, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, MG Motors, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Prestige, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota, Wuling and Volkswagen.

Some, as Daihatsu, already announced they will not present any new models. Their focus will be on sales.

 

[Hawk256]

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Without seeing the whole list, based on what you have provided, it appears that Toyota is an offender of publishing valid numbers. The other manufactures are much closer to the advertised numbers. Like I said, I can talk intelligently about a Honda BR-V being very close to the numbers based on my personal experience. The other's not so much. Don't have much interest in discussing the way of the future, just providing both sides of the coin. Maybe there is long term answer but electric/hybid has it's own problems and doesn't appear the be the long term answer IMHO.

 

[Wisnu]

The participating car manufacturers are Audi, BMW, Citroen, Chery, Daihatsu, DFSK, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, MG Motors, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Prestige, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota, Wuling and Volkswagen.

Some, as Daihatsu, already announced they will not present any new models. Their focus will be on sales.

From kompas.com

Toyota Grand Highlander Meluncur, SUV Bertampang Veloz - Kompas.com

Toyota Grand Highlander resmi diperkenalkan di Amerika, tapi yang menarik justru tampilannya kini jadi mirip Veloz.

amp.kompas.com

Seem a very nice SUV, available in 2 type hybrids. Will be launched mid of 2023.

 

[jstar]

The thing is rather big, it positions between Highlander and Sequoia. I don’t get the name chosen; it doesn’t share anything with the current Highlander. It doesn’t come to Europe (unlike the regular Highlander) and probably Australia (where the smaller is called Kluger because of a Hyundai trademark) and I think there will be never right hand steering versions of this car, it’s more for the US market. But you never know.

It has a rather unique suspension in the back so people there have more headspace. Thirteen (13!) cup holders seems a bit over the top.

In China, the ‘regular’ Highlander is part of a modest quality scandal. Two (very different) things are at play there.

1. The car is available in two versions. A basic with Apple/Android connection and without OTA (Over The Air) possibilities, a luxury with OTA but without the telephone link. That functionality would be added later (via OTA). After more than a year, that update is still not available and the luxury version does not seem to be able to accept OTA at all.
2. The air outlet in the back has a design flaw, which makes it easy to leak. This creates an accumulation of moisture. The condensation eventually drips down to where the battery is located, leading to a short circuit (and possible fire hazard).

Chinese owners are making a lot of noise on social media because Toyota is ignoring them and the problems.

 

[jstar]

According to the J.D. Powers listing, Lexus got the title of most reliable cars back from Kia that dropped to a third place. Genesis, another Hyundai brand was number two. Obviously every country has different models and different versions of these lists. In the US for instance, Honda scored rather bad while they were number one in the UK.

 

[jstar]

Talking about Honda, the new WR-V is not that popular yet.

This is a 5 seater Crossover. The price starts at Rp 279.4 Million for the basic variant E, up to Rp 317.4 Million for the top variant RS. All three have a CVT transmission.

On the top model it also has the Honda Sensing we talked about earlier. Its main competitors are the Toyota Raize, Daihatsu Rocky and Hyundai Creta. Those you see quite a lot on the roads here.

 

[jstar]

In fact you can see that WR-V as the successor of the Jazz/Fit in Indonesia. Which base it uses btw. That car has a 4th generation but in Indonesia they stopped selling after the 3rd generation, it was sold for 18 years. There is just not enough demand anymore for a hatchback and they go for the crossover, also in the smaller segments.

Personally I think the design of the WR-V is rather VW-like. Simple, straight lines and perhaps somewhat boring. If you compare that to the Toyota and Hyundai competitors, you’ll see those are somewhat more frivolous.

 

[jstar]

Crossover vs hatchback

With Volkswagen you see the same happening. In Europe the Golf, once the absolute number 1, is gradually replaced by the T-Roc and the electric ID.3. The VW Golf is not for sale anymore in Indonesia.

What ís for sale here, is the T-Cross. It already exists 4 years but is rather new in Indonesia.

This is the crossover version of the Polo. Not so big but don’t forget that the Polo has the same size as the Golf had three generations ago; everything grows.

It has a 1 liter 3 cylinder engine with a 6 speed automatic. It is amazingly expensive with 488 juta. but it is rather loaded with LED lights, digital cockpit, ventilated chairs, superior climate control, sun roof, wireless mobile phone charging, etc.

We won’t spot it on the road often.

 

[serious_fun]

My brother in law, as so many Indonesians, only buys Toyota or Honda.

I'm a loyal Toyota customer/consumer also; I've only had good experiences with Toyota over the years. Not being terribly wealthy, I need to go with reliability over performance and style.

 

[jstar]

, I need to go with reliability over performance and style.

Well, there are Toyota‘s which design is not that bad. For me personally they use too many cracks and folding and lines nowadays. On the sides that is, the front and back are not bad. All a matter of personal preference.

And with a market share of 32% they muse do something right. Daihatsu has 20% so that makes half of all the cars from that stable. (Excl. Lexus.)

It‘s a shame that in Indonesia there are no serious reliability studies. It would be interesting to see how the ‘Indonesian’ Japanese cars perform.

 

[jstar]

Ford obviously left the country some time ago.

Still, some interesting news; they cancel cars like the Focus and Fiesta in Europe. Besides that, Ford is sweeping through its European workforce. Some 3,800 jobs will vanish, most of them in Germany.

Of these, 2,300 disappear in Germany and another 1,300 in the United Kingdom. The remaining 200 jobs will be cut in other countries. These are mainly technical and administrative jobs. According to Ford, the job cuts are related to the transition to electric cars. They have fewer* parts, so there is less work to develop parts.

Obviously the need to save costs also plays a role. Ford wants to reduce the workforce mainly through voluntary severance schemes. In recent years, Ford has already become much smaller in Europe. The company decided to offer far fewer different models there and in 2019 more than 5,000 jobs disappeared in Germany and there were also significant cuts in Russia, France and the United Kingdom.

On the car front; they will introduce two electric vehicles on the MEB platform of VW in Europe. That temporary solution more or less means they are not ready themselves with platforms for full electrification in the smaller and midsize segments.

The F150 Lightning, the electric version of the pickup truck and car which is the top seller in the USA, probably won’t make it to Europe. There are waiting lists and they are ramping up production as we speak.

* look at the size of the frunk, it gives you an idea of the size of the electric motors vs the gasoline engines:

 

[jstar]

Toyota is filling up their gamut of SUV’s rapidly.

The C-HR hybrid which is available in Indonesia, is rather extreme in its design. Perhaps too progressive for many people.

So they introduced the Corolla Cross. You should see this model as calmer sibling of the C-HR and position the crossover between the bigger RAV-4 and smaller Yaris Cross. (Which are not available here but they have the Fortuner and the Raize.)

The Indonesian version has, like in Malaysia and the Philippines, a 1,8 liter version. In Singapore and Europe they have started with a 2,0 liter version and they will get the 1,8 with 50 horse power less, later.

Prices start at 541 juta with is 60 million cheaper than the C-HR. So these cars are twice as expensive as a Toyota Rush for instance.

 

[Jaime C]

My wife signed the contract for the Toyota Veloz today. Price negotiations were like pulling teeth. Got a 20 juta discount, after a number of discussions, including a manager. I’m sure I could have shaved a few more juta off, but I didn’t want to waste too much time on it.

We’re going to just sell our Nissan Livina ourself.

 

[Hawk256]

My wife signed the contract for the Toyota Veloz today. Price negotiations were like pulling teeth. Got a 20 juta discount, after a number of discussions, including a manager. I’m sure I could have shaved a few more juta off, but I didn’t want to waste too much time on it.

We’re going to just sell our Nissan Livina ourself.

Did you end up getting a 2022 or 2023?

 

[Jaime C]

Did you end up getting a 2022 or 2023?

It’s supposed to be a 2023. We’ll take delivery in about a week.

 

[Hawk256]

It’s supposed to be a 2023. We’ll take delivery in about a week.

I was just curious since you got a discount. WIth the Innova, they let me walk instead of even discussing a discount on a 2023 Innova but would give a small discount on a 2022. Could be the popularity on the new Innova. They don't have to discount to sell them I guess. Congratulations on your new Veloz.

 

[jstar]

The overhaul for the Innova last November was quite big. The Zenix is rather different from the Reborn generation. It has even a new platform, the exterior changes are more in bumpers and (LED) light. The red arrows show how you can recognize the new Innova (front lights and grille).

The previous Reborn:

It also goes along with the new trend of a big (9 or 10”) screen higher on the dashboard and digital AC. They also move the transmission handle. Only the Q version has 6 airbags.

Besides the platform, one of the most important improvements of the Innova Zenix is the engine. It might look the same with a 2.0 liter capacity, but the 1TR-FE gasoline engines from the previous model was really old and outdated. So it is replaced with the much more modern and efficient and powerful M20A-FKS with CVT. And the car is even 170 kg lighter than the previous one.

So in this case there is no year model change, the new generation is really a new (and a much better) car. I don’t think it looks better than the previous one but that’s not so relevant.

New models are always popular in Indonesia and the discount on the price minimal.

​

 

[Jaime C]

I was just curious since you got a discount. WIth the Innova, they let me walk instead of even discussing a discount on a 2023 Innova but would give a small discount on a 2022. Could be the popularity on the new Innova. They don't have to discount to sell them I guess. Congratulations on your new Veloz.

Well, they offered a 12jt discount from the start. The additional discount was through incremental negotiating. And included a dark window tint, rain guards for the doors, emergency kit including fire extinguisher. 3 year, 100k km warranty. 3 year 60k km free oil changes. Roadside assistance, etc.

Now, it’s time to list our Grand Livina for sale!

 

[jstar]

a few cars on display (Creta….

In the IIMS car expo in Kemayoran, Hyundai introduces the Dynamic Black edition which is completely ….well eh black.

The Hyundai CRETA Dynamic Black Edition is presented specifically for consumers who have a modern, dynamic, and stylish lifestyle. Good to know.

There are no other differences with the model it’s based on. If anyone wants to fork over a $1,000 extra for this Batmobile, be my guest.

3 year, 100k km warranty. 3 year 60k km free oil changes. Roadside assistance, etc.

More interesting from Hyundai is its Hyundai Owner Assurance Program and after sales services which include:

1. Basic Warranty for 3+1 years or 100,000 KM (whichever is reached first).
2. Free maintenance services for 5 years or 75,000 (whichever is achieved first).
3. Free spare parts for periodic maintenance for 3+1 years or 60,000 KM (whichever is achieved first).
4. Free 24 hours Roadside Assistance (via Hyundai Call Center)
5. Availability of Hyundai Genuine Accessories consisting of 12 accessories items.

In other continents Hyundai offers 7 year warranty so they really believe in their products.

Now don’t forget that for these services most other brands demand regular maintenance which can be rather expensive.

 

[jstar]

Availability of Hyundai Genuine Accessories consisting of 12 accessories…..

Okay, if you insist: