Mobil Rakyat...new cars

[vocalneal]

On the contrary, most residential dwellings have multiple car parkings integrated. And with a power wall like that from Tesla for instance, it would not be difficult to integrate with.....solar.

See the Australian solutions I published in this thread before.

So rather than just buy a car, we now have to buy a power wall and a giant solar array. Are you sure you are feeling OK? Or maybe cars are no longer a convenience?

I'll wait until electric cars loose their trendy, techie image and become available and mainstream. Meantime I'm still a Wagon R man.

I3 with range extender would be OK if I was the type of person who bought a car to impress. i still don't understand the economics of hybrids?

 

[jstar]

So rather than just buy a car, we now have to buy a power wall and a giant solar array. Are you sure you are feeling OK? Or maybe cars are no longer a convenience?

No, rather than visiting a gas station located miles away once per week and queue there and spend cash, we plug in a stekker every evening which will take one minute.

Talking about (in)convenience....

The solar solution obviously doesn't have to solely support the car. Currently we use it for water heating only but I would love to be able to run electric peripherals also (kulkas, water pump, aircon, ...).

 

[El_Goretto]

@vocalneal and @jstar I think that in the current state, electric vehicles will be reserved for the rich or for companies like bluebird that have taxi pools throughout Indonesia to support a limited fleet of electric vehicles.

But it has to start somewhere.

An electric transition, which is far from even have happened in the west will take years in countries such as Indonesia.

But if in the long term, moving from subsidized bensin to subsidized electric vehicles and solar panels would be more beneficial for the country.

However, so many other things have to happen before that: stronger electricity production capacity, better road infrastructures, a better electrical infrastructure with charging stations across the archipelago, cheap electric motorbikes and vehicles, etc. It's a tall order.

 

[jstar]

The 'old continent' has a much bigger push from their eco conscious governments to change, but they also have the handicap of a head start.

You saw the same at the time with wireless networks in the US etc. The technology and infrastructure became obsolete and countries who started somewhat later from scratch, got newer solutions in place much faster.

Now I agree we can't expect much from the government here. There's no vision and pollution and environment just aren't on the radar. Luckily trends from abroad get copied very fast though. Perhaps there will be a bottom up approach?

Now I'm not a 'green boy' but I do see it every day, the fine dust and physical impact. Esp. in large Asian cities the progress could be enormous by some simple measures, like a change in taxation*.


* the only reason Tesla is so popular in countries as Norway and The Netherlands, is financial. People don't buy electric because it's good for the environment but because they get charged less and have no issues to park in the cities, etc.

 

[jstar]

BMW has introduced its new roadster, the Z4.

They developed this car together with Toyota. In their closed version it will be the new Supra.

Not cheap, count on 1,5 billion rupiah. (€95.000, $105,000)

Both manufacturers claim the cars are developed separately and will look and drive very differently though.

The Beemer has a soft top (again) which will also benefit the booth space.

 

[R Cameron]

What is the average household connection power rating in Indonesia? Where would anyone charge their electric car?
In the US there is not enough electricity generated for everyone to own an electric car. I suspect Indonesia is worse?

My understanding is that Java actually has a surplus of electricity and have been offering promotions to do free meter upgrades to higher wattage to increase usage. Of course much of that supply isn't 'green', so electric vehicles charged from PLN are still using some fossil fuels, but it is cheaper and less harmful with the efficiencies of industrial scale generation.

As for the average household, if you only count households who would buy these fairly expensive electric cars, I think most already have 4400 watt power supply and many even more. If you spend 50,000usd for a vehicle, spending $300 for an upgraded or additional meter is no problem.

 

[jstar]

Of course much of that supply isn't 'green', so electric vehicles charged from PLN are still using some fossil fuels, but it is cheaper and less harmful with the efficiencies of industrial scale generation.

True. I probably was a bit too harsh with the 'lack of vision' but here you can see what the proportions are:

And it's amazing what the geo-thermal potential of this country is, with all its volcanoes. I haven't heard about the ambitious nuclear ambitions anymore for quite some years, it probably should be included in @dafluff 's to do before moving the capital to Kalimantan list.

If you see the households you allude too, they also have rather big houses with space for at least two cars and large roof surfaces...

But even if you don't want to 'stekker', the hybrid solutions are available. Less fuel consumption and an autonomous (=silent and less polluting) electric range of up to 30 kilometers. X-Trail, Camry, etc. etc. hybrids are here and available for sale. Just too expensive compared to their fuel-only versions. Nobody will ever spend the extra dough.

 

[jstar]

.
Wuling introduced the Confero S with the so called eClutch.

That is a semi automatic, or clutchless manual if you will. So there are only two pedals.

It was adopted from a well known German gear system manufacturer.

Many years ago I had a Mercedes with a similar system; it was much cheaper than a full automatic. In a city center in front of a traffic light, the system gave up, the car was barely 6 months old. Within the warranty period I encountered the same problem again, but now on the highway. In both occasions I had to wait for hours to be towed. Needless to say it was my first and last experience with this Speedtronic. I think MB walked away from the technology short after.

 

[jstar]

Honda has stated they will review, simplify and standardize their car portfolio worldwide and strive for more conformity. They found out 60% of their worldwide sales came from a limited amount of models only (e.g. CR-V, HR-V, Jazz).

Now we heard that before from Ford, and their 'world car' concept has proven to be a big failure. It does not seem so simple to develop cars that can be sold everywhere.

Anyway, in India the Mobilio is canceled. Only the BR-V stayed in their gamut. So it definitely could have an impact on certain continents and countries.

 

[jstar]

Kia and Hyundai don't offer a lot of models in Indonesia.

In the rather popular subcompact class of the Honda Jazz and Toyota Yaris (Europeans would refer to the VW Polo class) they have the RIO. Which exists in its current form since 2017 and got facelifted in 2018, but -in good tradition- is called the All New Rio here.

Compared to Europe, where the car is priced between €18-€28K, the Indonesian prices are not bad. But with a 260-275 Juta, they can't really compete with the Japanese here.

What is rather unique in this class with mainly CVT's, is that the car can be equipped with a full automatic. And it has a 5 year warranty.

Something that would get me a bit worried if I would consider this car, is that a couple of months ago Kia stopped with the 1.4 liter engine in most markets, and that's the only available engine here. Everywhere it's being downgraded to 1.0 and 1.2 liter versions. I'm also not so sure how long this car will stay in production, in other markets different models are being introduced and pushed.

 

[Dave70]

In both occasions I had to wait for hours to be towed.

That's the thing I don't like about automatic or semi-automatic, if the car breaks down, it has to be towed, you cannot push it to the side of the road for safety and to clear traffic.

 

[harryopal1]

Whether or not this country moves to electric powered cars or bikes there is still the unaddressed issue of population control. So there would be less pollution in the air from traffic jams with electric powered vehicles but traffic jams will continue as more and more people get onto the roads. We can only presume if the standard of living rises over the next few years then more of those who at present don't own cars or motorbikes will start getting them. The related infrastructure issues with increased populations seem to be ignored. Worldwide, the issue of population control seems to be unconsidered and the cities get worse and worse for getting around. Meanwhile big luxury cars continue to sell so that if you are going to be stuck in the traffic at least you can be comfortable.

 

[vocalneal]

It was adopted copied from a well known German gear system manufacturer.

Saab had a similar system way back and not so long ago. Also Citroen I think.

1993 Saab has chosen to revive the automatic clutch with a new product made by Fichtel & Sachs.
Fichtel and Sachs sounds German?

http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/maintenance/hydrak.htm

 

[jstar]

Sometimes (as a self proclaimed car connoisseur) you have that; you see someone driving a brand spanking new car and you think by yourself; how the hell did they think purchasing that car was a good idea?

I had that when I saw some neighbors accepting their 'new' GLC. (So the Mercedes SUV of the C-Class.) Obviously i didn't dare to say anything but "nice car" and I realize they probably got some discount (MB doesn't give a lot here), but why would you at least not check and go for the new model which has been presented weeks ago and which is arriving now?

Similar feeling when I saw an acquaintance of my wife proudly showing off her new copper orange....Chevrolet Trax.

I know she probably paid 285 Juta. And yes, she got the 30 month free maintenance deal. But that is a car that definitely will change this year. And I don't expect a facelift but a completely new model.

The thing is that Opel, Vauxhall and Holden still have versions of this car too. The Mokka etc. were developed before the divorce and move to the PSA (Peugeot Citroën) group. The new version will be GM only, Opel c.s. already have introduced a direct cannibalistic competitor based on a PSA platform.

And then there's GM in Indonesia. Daewoo was a failure. Wuling is not doing so bad. But Chevrolet? A brand with a bit of identity crisis outside of USA and China. (Is it American? Is it Korean?) The sales numbers are not good, when they sold 3.000 units they uncorked the champage, that tells us something. Perhaps it's not as extreme as with Ford, who did not have local production so it was easier to leave the country, but I wouldn't be surprised if they pull the plug one day.

Last but not least, compared to a HR-V for instance, it does not have a lot extra too offer. And that's an understatement.

Well, hopefully she will enjoy the car. I guess that's what counts in the end.

 

[vocalneal]

Daewoo was a failure. Wuling is not doing so bad. But Chevrolet? A brand with a bit of identity crisis outside of USA and China. (Is it American? Is it Korean?)

I though Chevrolet out here is Asia is or was Daewoo.

 

[jstar]

Ya my point exactly Neil, nobody knows anymore. In Europe it has become the Daewoo Korean line before they stopped completely (now you can only order the US models as Camaro and Corvette).

Here they tried to go Korean too (=Daewoo) but besides the Spark now it is practically US based only. Which doesn’t mean it is produced there of course, but codeveloped with US siblings (Trax) and based on US platforms (as TrailBlazer shared with Chevy Colorado / GMC Canyon). Most often assembled in Thailand. So I guess yes, you can say they are Asian cars.

I completely forgot to mention Isuzu when talking about GM. Sorry for that.

 

[jstar]

Another example of the unclear direction on models and continents, and ability of this manufacturer to pull the plug (à la Fiat which also changed models as often as I do underwear) is the Chevrolet Orlando.

You see this car still rather often on the road in Indonesia, it is a 7 seater MPV.
But it was discontinued end of last year.

At first it would be produced in the US, then GM changed its mind and chose for South Korea instead. With assembly plants in Uzbekistan, Vietnam, ...

There is no successor. Well, there is, but only in China (?!) By joint venture SAIC-GM.

It doesn't look bad btw, resembles a bit the Mazda CX-5...but with a tiny 3 cylinder engine instead.

 

[El_Goretto]

Indeed that's not a bad design at all. I quite like it.

 

[jstar]

I knew you would like the shark nose. Don’t think we can expect it here though.

 

[jstar]

Talking about Mazda, the CX-30 (which would be called CX-4 if that name didn't already exist in China) is coming this year.

In Europe, it is expected in the showrooms in September. The price there should be around €30.000.

In Asia, obviously the Japanese market will be the first market to get this car. There should be a turbodiesel of 1.8 liter and a 2.0 liter gasoline engine. Automatic is an option.