Falling out of love with Indonesia.

Vanhelsing

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For the better part of three decades I've spent periods living or traveling through Indonesia finding the country one of the most interesting and rewarding places for me to spend time. These last few trips over the past two years, however, has seen my enjoyment diminish considerably. Perhaps it's just early onset grumpy old man syndrome, but I have lost patience with the place, developing a larger, seemingly incurable, disdain for the backward thinking of many, the greed, the false friendships, the ignorance...as well as double pricing, noise, the roads...and on.

It's somewhat annoying to have fallen out of love with Indonesia as I had until recently considered moving there on a more permanent basis in the future. I don't understand why I've lost patience with the place as it itself hasn't changed enormously, as I see it. Or has it?
 
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I have kind of the same feelings, and have decided to leave Indonesia this coming week after 6 years here.
 
I don't think it is just Indonesia. I suspect it is also to do with information overload and media priorities. (Worked across the spectrum, radio, TV, print for 30 years.) Most media areas, newspapers, radio and television are driven by a primary motive to make a profit. With easy access now to so many sources of information many organizations have seen this as providing opportunities to further increase profit by cutting staff and costs. Serious investigative journalism is much less part of the mainstream output. Fundamentally media is engaged in the entertainment business. Even serious program makers use entertaiment jargon such as with a prospective interviewee being "good talent." Like it or loathe it the stories that get the numbers of consumer pick up are bad news stories.

With the lightning speed now for information availability, disaster stories are everywhere. And increasingly among those stories are reports of executive corruption across the range of business activities from banks, insurance companies to some of the world's biggest corporations. Volkswagen being a notable recent example of deliberate falsifying to make their cars seems cleaner than they are actually are. Stories of cover ups by large organizations when it comes to hazards of chemical and pesticide production and, as we have seen in Indonesia recently, marketing of fake medications and vaccinations.

The propensity for people to improve their material wealth by cheating and conniving is now much more on naked display. The overwhelming effect is to leave us with a sense of helplessness and hopeless about the future or our species or a capacity to even behave decently towards each other. But with all that my impression remains that the vast majority of people are kind and caring and wishing to just have a reasonably decent life. Of course economic pressures and unemployment push otherwise decent people to resort to criminal means to survive. So we see millions of people trying to flee the poorest countries believing in the fantasy that life in a developed country will be wonderful. And the response is growing fear and hatred of refugees throughout Europe or wherever refugees turn up.

Vanhelsing I understand your disenchantment but all countries are mostly changing for the worse with population explosions and "development". I am really curious as to where you would see a happier settlement option?
 
Vanhelsing I understand your disenchantment but all countries are mostly changing for the worse with population explosions and "development". I am really curious as to where you would see a happier settlement option?
I agree nothing and nowhere stays the same and it's foolish to cling on to those simpler/nicer times. It's also unfair to begrudge a people the opportunity to progress. But it does seem there can't be progress without an ugly distortion to the nature or character of some people, and I feel that to be the case with so many Indonesians over the recent years.

Where would I see a happier settlement option? I'm somewhat unsure as I had thought until recently Indonesia would be my final port of call. If pushed, I'd have to say Nepal and its people still offers an authentic sincerity to it which I find very appealing. The country does have its issues as do most developing regions, but I have found the Nepalese to be by and large very generous and warm on the whole, with several extended periods spent there very rewarding. The main drawback with Nepal for me is the distance from Australia as Indonesia offered a quick flight for family visits or possible health support. I guess nowhere is going to be perfect though, is it?
 
Nepal is still recovering from the earthquake and now there is a bullding boom. Whenever there are economic booms you can be sure there are casualties and greed is heightened. And the Pacific? Like everywhere else, plastics and pollution are found everywhere, Keep at it. Really interested to know your next best option.

I guess you could retreat into unreality with video games and avatars. UFOs are popular.
 
Patience, similar to scalp hair, thins with age. The perspective, rather than the subject, is the culprit.
 
Vanhelsing, this is really good question you've asked here. On the one hand, it's a personal question as to whether you've changed, or are things changing - and that for the worse.

I'd like elaborate on something @harryopal touched on above, but looking at the problem from a different angle. The result of ever increasing populations worldwide have (in my opinion) resulted in more polarized societies and regions along political, religious, and economic lines. I try to stay away from political debates, but it's interesting to note how the upcoming Indonesian presidential election has galvanized conservative religious factions - which in turn seems to be affecting society as a whole, and causing deep divisions. The same sort of process holds true for America, as I've never seen people more at odds with each other than they are today.

When I first visited Indonesia almost 20 years ago, there was truly a special feeling being in such a unique place, with people who's culture was so foreign to mine, and with new challenges I've never experienced. Solo and Yogyakarta were (and still are to some extent) off the beaten path, with a sense of community that's very unique. Much has changed in 20 years, but I still feel that the same people can be found - once you get them to put their hand-phones away. The ever present challenges are still there, but they have a different flavor these days. As much as I enjoy going to Indonesia, there has always been something to deal with that doesn't make sense, and lacking any rationale. For me, that's been part of the adventure and I tend to be patient about these things, finding some bizarre entertainment value in observing the process. However, if one lives there, I could see that wearing them down over time.

Regarding Nepal, which by the way is on my "must visit" places list, it may be worth closely examining other islands in Indonesia than the one your staying at now - which you may have already done. I've certainly done this, but my wife always seems to have the same conclusion - her hometown of Solo. It seems you may have more flexibility and options than I do, and I'm sure you have different personal driving factors. No matter where you go, I think this societal polarizing phenomenon we humans are facing these days, will be evident to some extent in that new place as well. If Indonesia has tendencies towards collectivist ideologies along religious lines, from what I've read about Nepal, similar seeds are there but with a different agenda. One thing Nepal deals with is poverty, as it's one of the most poorest countries in the world according to UN/GDP stats found in Wikipedia. We could argue that despite it's poverty, it's the Nepalese people who make a difference. I would probably contend that you'll likely find the same sort of greed, unfairness (to outsiders), and senseless bureaucracy, found in places like Indonesia and similar developing countries.

The final note, and as you've alluded to, you may also be changing. It could be that you just need a "channel shift" on a personal level. That's what happened with me and the Philippines. I forever continue to compare Indonesia to the Philippines where I was very involved for about 15 years. Indonesia was a refreshing change from what I experienced in the Philippines. However, in all honesty, that's just something going on in my own mind. The Philippines probably has some great places and situations these days, but I've personally soured to the culture there. I would wager that the coconut trees are just as green in both places, but drinking Indonesian coconut juice just seems better to me for some reason...
 
Its infinitely quicker and more pleasant drive to CGK than 20 years ago. With all the infrastructure projects underway throughout greater DKI, its almost impossible to get anyplace else quickly. On balance, not much has changed, surface travelwise, anyway.
 
I continue to compare Indonesia to the Philippines where I was very involved for about 15 years.

I'm more or less the same. I spent 4.5 years in Malaysia and I usually compare Indonesia to there:

1. Although the Malaysians aren't as friendly as face value, I find them more direct and honest.

2. Malaysia is more religious having Sharia law in place, but it's only aimed at Muslims. Non-Muslims (both local and foreign) are pretty much left to their own devices.

3. It's much easier to blend in whilst in Malaysia. You can go for a walk without people shouting 'hello mister' every 5 paces or staring at you as if you've fallen from the sky.

4. Some in Malaysia do enjoy trying to make a quick buck off foreigners, but it's nowhere near as rampant as Indonesia.

I could go on further, but I won't try to hijack the thread. Rant over :D
 
I guess you could retreat into unreality with video games and avatars. UFOs are popular.
This sounds like some excellent advice perhaps I will pick this up upon my return to Indonesia, either later this year or next.

I can't say I have ever "fallen" in love with Indonesia. There are some things I don't like but generally I have been treated well by most people.
 
As already mentioned in multiple other threads, there are quite some alternatives for Indonesia in South East Asia (or the world for that matter) which have more to offer on safety, healthcare, provisions for foreigners, opportunities and tolerance.

And those show better signs of progressiveness (i.e. not becoming more and more conservative by the day, by some false morality), anti corruption, ecology awareness and measures against pollution, and economic growth.

So for me, it would be a no brainer if there were no family ties or other important relationships/connections.
 
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For the better part of three decades I've spent periods living or traveling through Indonesia finding the country one of the most interesting and rewarding places for me to spend time. These last few trips over the past two years, however, has seen my enjoyment diminish considerably. Perhaps it's just early onset grumpy old man syndrome, but I have lost patience with the place, developing a larger, seemingly incurable, disdain for the backward thinking of many, the greed, the false friendships, the ignorance...as well as double pricing, noise, the roads...and on.

It's somewhat annoying to have fallen out of love with Indonesia as I had until recently considered moving there on a more permanent basis in the future. I don't understand why I've lost patience with the place as it itself hasn't changed enormously, as I see it. Or has it?

Thinking about this. Hmmm. It is said it is better to travel in hopefully than to arrive. I’m sure the noise and the roads and the backward thinking was there all along, but maybe you were hopeful and it didn’t register. It only sticks out because, spiritually, you have arrived.

I’m only here, in Asia for the sun and the palm trees. Most other stuff I ignore. Double pricing is also in Thailand and, if one is an Arab and looking for a taxi, in London.

All one needs are three squares a day and somewhere to sleep. That’s the basic. Add some mates for a chat and some exercise and maybe that should be enough. Some need an intellectual element but strangers can surprise there.

All the politics and democracy and other BS should be ignored if they don’t directly impact. Overturned ferries? Crashed buses? Lah,lah,lah are just a minor distraction.

Pick somewhere were the water pressure is good, the internet is good, the beer (substitute your poison here) is acceptable but most important, as we know, is the food. If you don’t like the food all is lost. This being said I will be quite happy in the future in Thailand as long as I can find a mildly touristy spot with a little bit of western food as I cannot abide chilli. Same logic holds true for Indonesia for me. Fortunately Karawang has a few places that have “foreign“ food. But I’m not putting down roots here.

I think as you allude to you have the beginnings of irascibility. Maybe find a hobby or find a pastime where you can contribute or help someone.Either that or you have a midlife crisis and you need to buy yourself a red sports car?
 
As already mentioned in multiple other threads, there are quite some alternatives for Indonesia in South East Asia (or the world for that matter) which have more to offer on safety, healthcare, provisions for foreigners, opportunities and tolerance.

And those show better signs of progressiveness (i.e. not becoming more and more conservative by the day, by some false morality), anti corruption, ecology awareness and measures against pollution, and economic growth.

So for me, it would be a no brainer if there were no family ties or other important relationships/connections.

Family trumps all. (No political implications intended.)

Excuse me, I have to head out to mow the lawn, a disagreeable Stateside task I don't have to do in Indonesia.
 
All one needs are three squares a day and somewhere to sleep. That’s the basic. Add some mates for a chat and some exercise and maybe that should be enough. Some need an intellectual element but strangers can surprise there.

Basically that sounds good. Keep life as simple as possible, even though at times it seems to get complicated.
 
I doubt that Simple Simon was as happy as the pieman or as well fed.
 
I can't remember was it Simple Simon who said......." I would rather die on the beach then in my office"? Of course it is not just a prescription for escapism or laziness hahaha. And how many pies does the Pieman need anyways for a more balanced fulfilling life?
 
Perhaps not, but from my aging perspective, enjoying the beach as a retired pieman is my choice.
 
Most beaches, as well as shorelines, not covered with flotsam, vendors, or drunken tourists.
 

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