War

[Balifrog]

If I'm not going to entertain whataboutism on past events, I'm certainly not going to entertain assumptions of events that haven't taken place.

Ignoring history is a guarantee to repeat the mistakes of the past ....

Or "To navigate the present, we must heed the lessons of history"

In fact it is a typical mistake of present days young "modern" techno-politicians who think they know everything....

 

[scouser59]

@scouser59 ,
Please answer the 2 points I raised ?

I wonder about some of the people on here ?

In WW2 there was many collaberators with various axis powers , they made small fortunes out of this evil activity which their families still live the "dolce vita" today ,many escaped to Africa Asia and of course South America .

When I see the dictator apoligists on here ,while the blood of Ukranians soaks the ground of their country , I have my suspicions of some members heritage .

 

[El_Goretto]

Boy oh boy, I heard what I heard, Putin said it himself. I have to find it (the video on YouTube), in case you have it, please share it here so we can all listen to it.

What you quote was a month ago at least. The comments from @Bob were from earlier this week. Putin's latest position on this is that he's ready to use nukes to fight NATO and he's threatened it twice recently.

 

[R Cameron]

a simplified explanation a friend posted:

The Ukraine & Russia crisis In simple terms for those that have no idea what is going on.
-Ukraine used to be in an abusive relationship with Russia, feeding him, letting him use her car & giving him whatever he asked for until she built up the confidence to call it quits back in 1991
-Since then Ukraine has been working on herself, becoming a strong independent woman with help from friends like France, America, Poland etc. offering her support, loaning her money, & helping her find her way.
-Ukraine has been enjoying being single for 30 years & looking forward to continuing to grow & create new friendships.
-Now Russia being the toxic Ex that it is wants her back, and doesn’t want her meeting new people or creating any new relationships.
-A couple of weeks ago Russia started sitting in the front of Ukraine’s house & when her friends ask him what was he doing there, he said “Oh nothing, just getting a little bit of exercise in, that’s all.”
-After her friends told her that Russia was potentially getting ready to do something bad to her, he said “They’re lying, they just want you to be scared of me & that’s not what it is”
-Yesterday Russia broke into Ukraine’s house, beating her up & “taking advantage” of her while on Livestream & double dog daring any of her friends to do something about it & if they do want the smoke, Russia got that thang on him.

That's a decent explanation, but they haven't exactly been split up for 30 years. For most of that time they were very close and were mostly a puppet government of Moscow. In 2014 a revolution got them a new president and moved them closer to EU relationships, and within months Putin moved in and took Crimea.

 

[R Cameron]

What you quote was a month ago at least. The comments from @Bob were from earlier this week. Putin's latest position on this is that he's ready to use nukes to fight NATO and he's threatened it twice recently.

In the description of the video @Dave70 linked it says it is from 2018. I also heard his threats in the past week that were both veiled and unveiled threats at using nukes. He has even said he considers sanctioning access to SWIFT financial systems to be an act of war, implying he would be willing to use nukes because of it.

 

[Balifrog]

I wonder about some of the people on here ?

In WW2 there was many collaberators with various axis powers , they made small fortunes out of this evil activity which their families still live the "dolce vita" today ,many escaped to Africa Asia and of course South America .

When I see the dictator apoligists on here ,while the blood of Ukranians soaks the ground of their country , I have my suspicions of some members heritage .

That is not the subject of my questions ....

And BTW, the military industry in the US makes billions thanks to the US invading other countries since 70 years. And killing 100.000's of civilians in the process. But as it are only <redacted racial slur 1>, <redacted racial slur 2> or communists it's not important ...

 

[dafluff]

Moderation note: Some racial slurs were removed because they were against forum rules.

We remind everyone to please observe decorum and our Posting Guidelines, especially as this is a sensitive topic. Thank you.

 

[Dave70]

What you quote was a month ago at least. The comments from @Bob were from earlier this week. Putin's latest position on this is that he's ready to use nukes to fight NATO and he's threatened it twice recently.

If you have link to the video, please share, I need to hear exactly what he said (beware of cropped video which cut whatever he said before or after the sentence), thanks in advance.

Yes, you are right in saying that Putin is ready to use nukes but I understand Putin said Russia will not initiate it, in other words, he will use nukes only in retaliation for a nuclear attack on Russia.

 

[Dave70]

When I see the dictator apoligists on here ,while the blood of Ukranians soaks the ground of their country , I have my suspicions of some members heritage .

Nobody is "dictator apologists" here. Regardless of whether or not Putin is a dictator, nobody is praising Putin. This is between nations, war between Russia and Ukraine. War is bad, it is never a good thing. And there will always be blood in wars, there's no such thing as a "bloodless" war.

The president of Ukraine is to blame for the war, he could have prevented it by de-escalation. Not by going to MSC and shouting "give us NATO membership now".

Putin urges Ukraine’s army to stage coup against country’s ‘neo-Nazi’ leaders

In televised address, Russian leader tells Ukrainian military to 'take power in your own hands' from 'this gang of drug addicts and neo-Nazis'

www.timesofisrael.com

By the way, I understand you disagree with some of my posts, I'm just presenting facts, are you disagreeing with the facts or what? Otherwise, why not present your counter argument?

 

[scouser59]

Nobody is "dictator apologists" here. Regardless of whether or not Putin is a dictator, nobody is praising Putin. This is between nations, war between Russia and Ukraine. War is bad, it is never a good thing. And there will always be blood in wars, there's no such thing as a "bloodless" war.

The president of Ukraine is to blame for the war, he could have prevented it by de-escalation.

Putin urges Ukraine’s army to stage coup against country’s ‘neo-Nazi’ leaders

In televised address, Russian leader tells Ukrainian military to 'take power in your own hands' from 'this gang of drug addicts and neo-Nazis'

www.timesofisrael.com

By the way, I understand you disagree with some of my posts, I'm just presenting facts, are you disagreeing with the facts or what? Otherwise, why not present your counter argument?

There is a bad smell coming from some of the members , which makes me think im close to reality, re heritage .

 

[Vulgarian]

Hanlon's razor is worth bearing in mind

 

[R Cameron]

The president of Ukraine is to blame for the war, he could have prevented it by de-escalation.

A sovereign nation wanting to choose its own alliances is justification to invade it?

And besides, it was never solely about their NATO membership. In negotiations he has said keeping them out would not be enough, he wants all the former Soviet states that have joined (years ago) out.

Putin's declaration of war made it clear he thinks Ukraine is an illegitimate nation and his ambition is to restore the boundaries of the USSR, or greater. His declaration of war and his address to his Security Council a couple days prior both make it clear his ambitions are far greater than protecting some Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine.

As for nuclear threats, it's very thinly veiled when he says, "Whoever would try to stop us... should know that Russia's response will be immediate and lead you to such consequences as you have never faced in your history." Same declaration of war speech:

 

[centurion]

You should dig deeper in history and the role of the US and the CIA during this era.

CIA activities in Indonesia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scroll down to the 1950's and later

"Following President Eisenhower's September 25, 1957 order to the CIA to overthrow the Sukarno government,"........

I understand your reasoning, and even Putin's security concerns, which are probably legitimate.

But in the world, the strongest shall be in charge, and if I need to choose between the US, Russia, and China, I would choose the US, despite mistakes and failures in the past and now, that they had. At the end of the day, they still represent the Western civilization.

The rise of autocrats is a direct result of the decline of the West and its self-confidence in the supremacy of its own culture, ideas, and values. Hopefully the non-important subjects such as trans rights, white supremacy B Sand oppression, safe spaces in universities, Gretha Thundberg, green agenda, and other nonsense will disappear with this wake-up call. To remind you, because of green BS, Germany is closing its nuclear and coal power plants, has wind energy, and completely depends on Russian gas, and the US is dependent on oil and imports.

 

[Balifrog]

Moderation note: Some racial slurs were removed because they were against forum rules.

We remind everyone to please observe decorum and our Posting Guidelines, especially as this is a sensitive topic. Thank you.

That was definitively not my intention. I just used "regular US slang language" in context with history.
I think you're pushing it a bit here ?

 

[Balifrog]

The president of Ukraine is to blame for the war, he could have prevented it by de-escalation. Not by going to MSC and shouting "give us NATO membership now".

Spot on.

 

[Balifrog]

There is a bad smell coming from some of the members , which makes me think im close to reality, re heritage .

Shouldn't this be moderated ?
This is close to accusing certain member to be nazi or something similar ?

 

[Nimbus]

You should dig deeper in history and the role of the US and the CIA during this era.

CIA activities in Indonesia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Scroll down to the 1950's and later

"Following President Eisenhower's September 25, 1957 order to the CIA to overthrow the Sukarno government,"........

One thing for certain, the CIA did not make Sukarno declare ‘konfrontasi’ with Malaysia. It was purely the product of nationalistic zeal combined with his power as president-for-life.

It is no secret that Suharto was close to USA despite maintaining the official stance of non-alignment. However, East Timor was not a military threat to anybody, and USA wasn’t pushing Suharto to capture it.

Your bringing the CIA is completely irrelevant to the topic.

 

[Nimbus]

The president of Ukraine is to blame for the war, he could have prevented it by de-escalation. Not by going to MSC and shouting "give us NATO membership now".

This opinion (not fact) is bull. Ukraine is never a military threat to Russia. Georgia too. That never stopped Russia from invading them.

They want to be members of NATO precisely because Russia invaded them.

 

[Nimbus]

I understand your reasoning, and even Putin's security concerns, which are probably legitimate.

But in the world, the strongest shall be in charge, and if I need to choose between the US, Russia, and China, I would choose the US, despite mistakes and failures in the past and now, that they had. At the end of the day, they still represent the Western civilization.

The rise of autocrats is a direct result of the decline of the West and its self-confidence in the supremacy of its own culture, ideas, and values. Hopefully the non-important subjects such as trans rights, white supremacy B Sand oppression, safe spaces in universities, Gretha Thundberg, green agenda, and other nonsense will disappear with this wake-up call. To remind you, because of green BS, Germany is closing its nuclear and coal power plants, has wind energy, and completely depends on Russian gas, and the US is dependent on oil and imports.

Putin is a fascist dictator. To consider him legitimate is to legitimize fascism. I guess your opinion shouldn’t be a surprise, considering your irrelevant attack on trans rights and climate change awareness.

 

[dafluff]

That was definitively not my intention. I just used "regular US slang language" in context with history.
I think you're pushing it a bit here ?

Thye weren't "regular US slang language", they were racial slurs. The point could have been made just as easily without gratuitous use.

Also, moderation decision is not the topic of this thread, if this needs to be discussed further, please make a thread in "Forum Talk".