Tobacco use in Indonesia

[serious_fun]

Tobacco use in selected countries around the world using WHO estimates for 2022.

Country

Indonesia

Total Prevalence (%) 38.5

Male (%) 73.6

Female (%) 3.4

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Something for the country to be proud of.

 

[Banana72]

Imposed high tax on tobacco....affected the cigarette stocks price (damn it). Yet....people still smoke anyway, govt got more cash from tax...investors got screwed.

I don't even smoke!

 

[Shadrach]

They should do the same as most of America and make Marijuana legal and charge the farmers for the permits, tax the distributors, and the legal shops that sell it. The amount of tax generated is huge! Which can be used for schools, hospitals, highway infrastructure, treatment for PTSD, And it provides a proven effective medicine for many ailments. Glaucoma, Epilepsy, an aid for cancer patients having nausea from chemotherapy, it is an effective calming agent for hyperactive patients and bipolar too. It's been too long that the myth that has been promoted has been proven false! It is a fact that it has been used for thousands of years medicinally!

 

[xenstar]

today I saw a kid, might be 8 or 9 years old, smoking openly and walking. If in my country, he would got beaten up.. haha

 

[Hawk256]

They should do the same as most of America and make Marijuana legal and charge the farmers for the permits, tax the distributors, and the legal shops that sell it. The amount of tax generated is huge! Which can be used for schools, hospitals, highway infrastructure, treatment for PTSD, And it provides a proven effective medicine for many ailments. Glaucoma, Epilepsy, an aid for cancer patients having nausea from chemotherapy, it is an effective calming agent for hyperactive patients and bipolar too. It's been too long that the myth that has been promoted has been proven false! It is a fact that it has been used for thousands of years medicinally!

Sounds good in theory but it's only as good as the regulations and taxation abilities of the government. Better to compare Indonesia to Thailand in that respect and it's not looking too go there. And that's even if you could convince some skeptical people that it's worth it. I wouldn't be planning on opening a shop just yet.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/thailands-promised-cannabis-bonanza-disappoints-politicians-trade-blame-2023-04-06/

 

[Shadrach]

The link to Thai politics is more of the same nonsense that has always been said. A guy who runs Massage parlors says it bad to legalize? Give me a break. They promote chemicals because the pharmaceutical companies fill their pockets with bribes, and denounce natural medicine. And how is it all this so called imported weed is getting into the country? Where are the customs officials? Lining their pockets as well! All of the politicians are rich corrupt bastards and don't give a damn about the people!

 

[vocalneal]

Better to compare Indonesia to Thailand in that respect

Thailand has an organization called colloquially "The Taboco Monopoly" or more politely The Tobacco Authority of Thailand. I'm sure it won't be long before there is a Marijuana Authority of Thailand

 

[fastpitch17]

The link to Thai politics is more of the same nonsense that has always been said. A guy who runs Massage parlors says it bad to legalize? Give me a break. They promote chemicals because the pharmaceutical companies fill their pockets with bribes, and denounce natural medicine. And how is it all this so called imported weed is getting into the country? Where are the customs officials? Lining their pockets as well! All of the politicians are rich corrupt bastards and don't give a damn about the people!

Where do they get all their weed. Thailand is well known for producing some of the most sought after potent weed in the world. If they are bringing any in it must be the cheap stuff from Aceh.

 

[Shadrach]

This reminds of the takeover by large corporations of the small farms and small mom and pop stores that happened after the great depression in America! Large chain stores moved in killing the small business and sold cheap Chinese made products intended to quickly break so people had to return and buy more and more.
The so called legalization of Marijuana was intended to repeat the same sad mistake that destroyed small business in the States. It wasn't designed to help small farmers, quite the opposite, it was intended to generate large sums of money by the large corporations (Mafia) who can afford the huge fees for licensing. What is happening in Thailand is the same. And the money flows directly into all the legal criminals pockets! Sorry! I have gotten off track of the original post about tobacco use in Indonesia.

 

[pantaiema]

Indonesia is the world's largest producer of clove cigarettes (Kretek).Considering the significant financial contributions from this industry, it's unlikely that politicians would have an incentive to bring it to a halt. Moreover, some of the wealthiest individuals in Indonesia have emerged from the clove cigarettes (Kretek) industry.

Levying a substantial tax on 'Kretek' may prove ineffective, given that Kretek smokers often come from low or very low-income households.
Indonesian samll boy smokes 40 cigarettes a day


Addicted, 2.5 Year Old Boy in Sukabumi Smokes 2 Packs of Cigarettes a Day - iNews

 

[Bob]

They should do the same as most of America and make Marijuana legal and charge the farmers for the permits, tax the distributors, and the legal shops that sell it. The amount of tax generated is huge! Which can be used for schools, hospitals, highway infrastructure, treatment for PTSD, And it provides a proven effective medicine for many ailments. Glaucoma, Epilepsy, an aid for cancer patients having nausea from chemotherapy, it is an effective calming agent for hyperactive patients and bipolar too. It's been too long that the myth that has been promoted has been proven false! It is a fact that it has been used for thousands of years medicinally!

Some states. It's still very illegal in others.
Taxing it much just makes black market supplies more attractive.

 

[Bob]

Where do they get all their weed. Thailand is well known for producing some of the most sought after potent weed in the world. If they are bringing any in it must be the cheap stuff from Aceh.

According to the linked article a lot of it's from the US.

 

[pantaiema]

This is another documentary of Indonesia's Tobacco & Clove Cigarette Industry from Channel 4 -Uureported World

In Indonesia, there is no minimum age for buying or smoking cigarettes. These products are readily available without any age verification checks at warungs, street vendors. It could also be purchased individually rather than in packs, making them more accessible to children. People, parents, relatives could give cigarette to children.

Politicians do not have any incentive to stop this practice as there are a lot money coming from this industry. The industry is the major sponsor of big events such as football, concerts, etc. Moreover, some of the Indonesian conglomarates, have become the wealthiest individuals emerged from producing the clove cigarettes (Kretek).

 

[Shadrach]

This is another documentary of Indonesia's Tobacco & Clove Cigarette Industry from Channel 4 -Uureported World

In Indonesia, there is no minimum age for buying or smoking cigarettes. These products are readily available without any age verification checks at warungs, street vendors. It could also be purchased individually rather than in packs, making them more accessible to children. People, parents, relatives could give cigarette to children.

Politicians do not have any incentive to stop this practice as there are a lot money coming from this industry. The industry is the major sponsor of big events such as football, concerts, etc. Moreover, some of the Indonesian conglomerates, have become the wealthiest individuals emerged from producing the clove cigarettes (Kretek).

The video was very interesting. It says it's age restricted? but children buying tobacco is not! I've seen shop owners sell cigarettes to children, and they say oh, they're buying them for their parents, but in reality they don't care, as long as they can make a sale! In the US they put a stop to large posters on the streets, ads on television, enforcing laws that restrict shops from selling alcohol, and tobacco to anyone under 21 years old. They do enforce these laws too! If a shop keeper is found to sell to minors they lose they're license which is a lose of lots of money! I saw in the video the parents did nothing to stop the children from smoking and actually helped them smoke, and work in the tobacco fields.

It has been proven that alcohol and tobacco are deadly but still promoted because of the money generated. It has also been proven that there has never been a death from using Marijuana! But it is demonized by the pharmaceutical, and tobacco industry because they would lose money if it was made legal and farmers could grow it, sell it, use it in many different ways, tinctures, salves, tablets, smoking also. It has been used medicinally for thousands of years, so why is it demonized and made illegal now? In the video there was a rice farmer that had cancer. It was from smoking which could be true, but I thought of how many times I have watched the rice farmers spraying deadly carcinogenic chemicals without any body protection to help the GMO Monsanto rice grow! No one provides them any education of the dangers or protective clothing from exposure to these deadly carcinogenic chemicals! It is well known that the pests and plant diseases become tolerant to these chemicals, so the industry has to develop stronger and more deadly chemicals constantly, which people get exposed too by air, touch, and ingesting it in the food!

I know it's Sunday and this seems like a heavy topic, but it shouldn't be ignored because what day it is!

 

[harryopal1]

Unfortunately much marijuana is now chemically laced to make it more potent so legalizing is not so simple. And another sad reality is that pre-teenage and young teenagers are often triggered into schitzophrenia by smoking marijuana. Based on personal observations I am not sure that legalizing marijuana is a great idea but the "war on drugs" has caused enormous damage. The issue needs to be looked at as a health issue. There needs to be a better means of dealing with illegal use other than gaol.

 

[Shadrach]

Unfortunately much marijuana is now chemically laced to make it more potent so legalizing is not so simple. And another sad reality is that pre-teenage and young teenagers are often triggered into schitzophrenia by smoking marijuana. Based on personal observations I am not sure that legalizing marijuana is a great idea but the "war on drugs" has caused enormous damage. The issue needs to be looked at as a health issue. There needs to be a better means of dealing with illegal use other than gaol.

What you are saying sounds more like the same old brain washing technique, promoted by the Pharmaceutical industry to stop people from using natural herbal remedies, that have been around for thousands of years! And only use their chemicals, and extremely overpriced drugs. I have nothing against pharmaceuticals, if they are tried and true remedies for ailments, I promote their use. But I do not promote Greedy corporations, overcharging for essential drugs, that are needed for life or death situations.

But as we all know, that natural, herbal remedies work also. It's just not so profitable for the corporations. I'm sure there are many factors that are involved in Children's mental health today. Total bombardment of microwaves, social media, fluoride, chlorine, nitrates, nitrites, the list is endless! just look at any label on processed food now. There a list of at least fifty ingredients, just for a simple sauce or something. And just try to find a 100% natural juice in a store. Not to mention, tons of sugar in everything.
All governments should be practical and legalize it, worldwide. As you know, there are lots of scientific proof of CBD derivatives, helping children with epilepsy, glaucoma, and helping those after chemotherapy treatment! This a strong point as to health benefits. That story of chemically laced pot has been around for decades! Another lie to promote more fear!

 

[harryopal1]

I am well aware of marijuana's use for people with health problems involving severe pain. My remarks are based on personal experience in Australia knowing many young people and visiting psychiatric hospitals during the period when people with mental health problems were confined to hospitals. There was a disconcertingly large number of early teenage young people with mental health issues related to marijuana use. Later this system changed to allow people to be treated outside hospitals but there were never sufficient funds to have an adequate level of care so first response to people with psychotic episodes were often police not trained to deal with mental health issues. I am not trying to brainwash anyone. Constant and heavy use of marijuana can have a serious impact on mental health and especially so with the very young.

 

[Shadrach]

Some states. It's still very illegal in others.
Taxing it much just makes black market supplies more attractive.

Actually, the governments plan to charge huge fees for the farmers permits, the industry was taken over by very wealthy people, which like the small Mom and Pop stores in America, couldn't compete, so they were taken over by Malls. Everyone that was a small farmer, couldn't compete so they went under. Not only were the cultivation permit fees too high, the government made them a 25% tax, then a processor payed 25% tax to clean the product, then the legal stores in the cities had to pay 25% tax to be allowed to sell the weed. That's 75% tax for the product. Due to the Mafia style production over producing, and flooding the market, the prices dropped to the point that for small farmers couldn't compete.
So in the end only the government and mafia made a fortune and killed the market.

 

[Shadrach]

I am well aware of marijuana's use for people with health problems involving severe pain. My remarks are based on personal experience in Australia knowing many young people and visiting psychiatric hospitals during the period when people with mental health problems were confined to hospitals. There was a disconcertingly large number of early teenage young people with mental health issues related to marijuana use. Later this system changed to allow people to be treated outside hospitals but there were never sufficient funds to have an adequate level of care so first response to people with psychotic episodes were often police not trained to deal with mental health issues. I am not trying to brainwash anyone. Constant and heavy use of marijuana can have a serious impact on mental health and especially so with the very young.

This a sad story. Most likely these people had deep psychological problems regardless of what they consumed. As you said issues related to Marijuana use. That could be a huge range of issues. In over fifty years living around people consuming marijuana, I never saw anyone with such serious mental issues related to Pot use. I saw some just being lazy. These kids your describing sound like they may have had some real troubles at home with their parents?