Foreign place names in Indonesia

[steveandpenny]

I think I know, unfortunately.
The "long time mayor of this shipping point" is a well known figure of the region: former governor Sinyo Harry Sarundajang who was mayor of Bitung from 1986 to 2000. It was him and not any of his three daughters who studied in Paris in the early 70's at the Institut International d'Administration Publique. It is unclear if he got any diploma from there but he managed to get a certificate of proficiency in French. He indeed speaks reasonably french.

The Sarundajang tribe are close neighbors, staying in Winangun where I live.

Vanda, his oldest daughter who is anggota DPR--RI at the moment, was still a teen (she must have been 14 or 15) when the 12m high Eiffel tower in Bitung got erected. She has a S1 from UKI, Jakarta. Nothing from France. Eva and Shinta the two youngest daughter were still in primary school at the time.


By the way, if one day you go further south in the Gorontalo province, you also have an Eiffel tower in Limboto, a few kilometers before Gorontalo. That one is cool because you drive through it. It is also "much" higher than the one in Bitung. I think it's about 30m high.

Damn it now I'm shattered ! The story I heard might not be true but I like it better lol. Atlantis if you know anything about Santa or the Easter bunny I DON' want to know.

 

[steveandpenny]

A fishing village down the road is called tanawanko which really means "dans a wanker" does that count ? He' a Brit who works at a resort.

 

[Smallworld]

Looking at the Bellezza Shopping/Residences/Business Towers in Permata Hijau in Jakarta could have one thinking they're near the Colosseum in Rome....

From my experience Colosseum in Rome and the area around it is way way way different from those towers or any place in Jakarta.

 

[Davita]

From my experience Colosseum in Rome and the area around it is way way way different from those towers or any place in Jakarta.

I see architectural similarities with the Bellezza building in Jakarta in post # 13 and these Roman buildings.....

 

[atlantis]

A fishing village down the road is called tanawanko which really means "dans a wanker" does that count ? He' a Brit who works at a resort.

Hahaha... Sure he would be happy to read that!

For information Tanawangko has a real meaning in bahasa tombulu, one of our local dialect "wangko" means big and "tana" means land. Most Minahasan name have a meaning in fact.

 

[Smallworld]

I see architectural similarities with the Bellezza building in Jakarta in post # 13 and these Roman buildings....

Oh OK... Hahaha
I thought you have seen similarities between those towers and colloseum.

 

[Davita]

Oh OK... Hahaha
I thought you have seen similarities between those towers and colloseum.

We have an apartment in one of the Bellezza residence tower and each time I visit it appears to me if the admin don't start repairing things it will soon look EXACTLY like the Colosseum....

 

[jstar]

How interesting. I had been told that the street was named after Marlboro cigarettes, back in the era when the "Marlboro Man" was a big image. I never stopped to consider whether this explanation makes any sense or not. Either of your explanations seem more plausible.

Yeah, the cigarette brand is 100 years old or so. The street (name) exists much longer.

There are many places (e.g. towns, districts and street names) in Indonesia and esp. in big cities as Jakarta, Surabaya and Bandung which have been replaced by local names. It was all an attempt to wipe out the colonial history. (Whether that's a positive thing? Erasing your own history?)

BTW, Hong Kong is doing a bit the same right now, it really becomes more and more just another huge Chinese city. Even the old mailboxes with the royal emblems have to be covered up.

There are not hundreds but thousands of examples of places that were renamed. So in Jakarta, there was Rijswijk and Noordwijk (cities in Holland) and Menteng and Bogor had different names (Weltevreden en Buitenzorg) as well.

 

[Supir Angkot]

^Nah, European colonial super powers then like the Dutch, British or Spanish aided by their skills in shipping, map making, trade and whatnot traveled all over the world and had this habit of changing native names of places they stayed on with new dopey foreign names or leaving their language embedded in names of places they visited for shits and giggles.
You can’t blame the locals if for whatever reason they reverted the name of places back to their more familiar nostalgic former names, can you?

 

[Davita]

^Nah, European colonial super powers then like the Dutch, British or Spanish aided by their skills in shipping, map making, trade and whatnot traveled all over the world and had this habit of changing native names of places they stayed on with new dopey foreign names or leaving their language embedded in names of places they visited for shits and giggles.
You can’t blame the locals if for whatever reason they reverted the name of places back to their more familiar nostalgic former names, can you?

Oh! Really......
Countries within South America and Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Mexico and USA still speak European languages today. Other countries which don't have a flexible national language, including Indonesia, resort to one of those European languages when anything technical is discussed.

To my recollection the only Indonesian word that made it into the English language lexicon is "AMUK"...... as in 'running amok'....very apt!

Did any Indonesian derived word become part of the Dutch dictionary?

 

[jstar]

^Nah, European colonial super powers then like the Dutch, British or Spanish aided by their skills in shipping, map making, trade and whatnot traveled all over the world and had this habit of changing native names of places they stayed on with new dopey foreign names or leaving their language embedded in names of places they visited for shits and giggles.
You can’t blame the locals if for whatever reason they reverted the name of places back to their more familiar nostalgic former names, can you?

Are you serious? Rename the Jalan Pos Besar / Grote Postweg to Jalan Asia Afrika? Because of that conference? Have the Jalan Java (Javaweg), become the Jalan HOS Cokroaminoto? There are almost all 'modern' names influenced by nationalism.

Also, Menteng for instance was in fact originally a Chinatown with shophouses (RuKo) avant la lettre. Raffles flattened it and introduced the 'Rumah Belanda'. Only 100 years ago there was a big revamp by the Dutch. And all Chinese disappeared in the Suharto era. Oh irony.

To my recollection the only Indonesian word that made it into the English language lexicon is "AMUK"...... as in 'running amok'....very apt!

Did any Indonesian derived word become part of the Dutch dictionary?

Sure, but not that many. Only 112 (of which 39 are Indonesian, the others are pre-RI Melayu). Compare that to the thousands of Dutch words in Bahasa. Amok is one of them yes, that we use a lot. And branie, goeroe and piekeren are some others. And 'you' have a famous one too: tank (as in basin)!!!

 

[Davita]

Are you serious? Rename the Jalan Pos Besar / Grote Postweg to Jalan Asia Afrika? Because of that conference? Have the Jalan Java (Javaweg), become the Jalan HOS Cokroaminoto? There are almost all 'modern' names influenced by nationalism.

Also, Menteng for instance was in fact originally a Chinatown with shophouses (RuKo) avant la lettre. Raffles flattened it and introduced the 'Rumah Belanda'. Only 100 years ago there was a big revamp by the Dutch. And all Chinese disappeared in the Suharto era. Oh irony.



Sure, but not that many. Only 112 (of which 39 are Indonesian, the others are pre-RI Melayu). Compare that to the thousands of Dutch words in Bahasa. Amok is one of them yes, that we use a lot. And branie, goeroe and piekeren are some others. And 'you' have a famous one too: tank (as in basin)!!!

Sorry jstar...I don't get what you mean highlighted above. According to searches 'tank' (as in a vessel containing water) is derived from India....https://www.etymonline.com/word/tank

 

[jstar]

The word tank is according to some linguistic experts originally derived from Sanskrit but absorbed in our languages via Hindi (talão), Indian (tâken) or Malayu (telaga).

They do agree it is an ‘Indisch’ word.

 

[Supir Angkot]

Are you serious? Rename the Jalan Pos Besar / Grote Postweg to Jalan Asia Afrika? Because of that conference? Have the Jalan Java (Javaweg), become the Jalan HOS Cokroaminoto? There are almost all 'modern' names influenced by nationalism.

Also, Menteng for instance was in fact originally a Chinatown with shophouses (RuKo) avant la lettre. Raffles flattened it and introduced the 'Rumah Belanda'. Only 100 years ago there was a big revamp by the Dutch. And all Chinese disappeared in the Suharto era. Oh irony.

The Grote Post weg was built from the scratch by the Dutch (albeit using thousands of unpaid slave locals worked to their death)
so of course there was no existing local name for that brand new massive road for military purposes, however it run thru cities with existing local names that have been changed to Dutch name like Batavia (Jakarta) Meester Cornelis (Jatinegara), Buitenzorg (Pakuan Bogor), Preanger (Parahyangan Bandung) etc.
Menteng and surounding were backwater boondocks then the Dutch built colonial county Estates and called the areas Weltevreden/Rijswijk/Noordwijk (after cities in Holland) but now has reverted back to Menteng.

So what I am saying is Indonesian has all the more reason to revert back to or renamed their areas to whatever new name they wish.

 

[jstar]

Of course they can do whatever they want. I just criticize the 'need' to wipe out the national history using the argument it was all colonial. The same for buildings etc. btw.

On a side note: I'm sure many expats know more about the history of this country than most locals. Of course you might argue that it makes sense people in survival mode are not so interested in that. But if I look at members of my f-i-l which attended the highest (catholic) education, the level of historical knowledge is appalling.

 

[jstar]

BTW, many names given in the colonial era are much older than current names. And something like Meester Cornelius predates Jatinegara. The schoolteacher name was already used in 1680 or so. And he was Indisch, not Bule! Later they just came up with something generic and linked it with some Malayu mystic as explanation.

Menteng and surounding were backwater boondocks then the Dutch built colonial county Estates and called the areas Weltevreden/Rijswijk/Noordwijk (after cities in Holland) but now has reverted back to Menteng.

No, the Dutch had many forts in Batavia, and Rijswijk and Noordwijk were two of them. They gave their names to the surrounding areas, but those areas were officially part of Weltevreden (not the name of a city in Holland!), which now is called Menteng. What is just the name of a fruit (tree) btw.

So there is an amazing amount of examples which give the impression that they revert to the pre-colonial naming of areas etc. Well, it could not be further from the truth. Don't forget most areas were not even developed pre-colonial. Jakarta (okay, Batavia) was a swamp before the Portuguese set foot here.

 

[jstar]

I see architectural similarities with the Bellezza building in Jakarta in post # 13 and these Roman buildings.....

I must admit though, that the Da Vinci is one of the prettier apartment buildings in the city.

Also interesting is the history of LTC, the Lindeteves Trade Center where we can buy our tools and advanced machineries:

There was a Dutch company active in Semarang, it was called Van der Linde en Teves, after its owners. For the western part of the country they needed a warehouse and salespoint in Batavia (Jakarta) as well. The company no longer exists after an acquisition by Stokvis, but the name still lives...