What is the reality of having helpers in Indonesian households?

[fastpitch17]

Yeah, the smoke got more intense. Same goes for the traffic. But still years away from Jakarta conditions. But when I see the development here, I think at some point we gonna reach similar levels.
For the prices, yeah it's true. Things got more pricey, some things double or more. It's still ok though in between affordable and expensive I would say. And the Indonesian/Chinese is the food is still better than in many other places if you ask me.
Overall it's still pretty relaxed and everything is close.
Where do you live now?

Bandar Lampung.

 

[Samoerai]

Just interested, what is considered lower middle class? I personally have around 17-18 juta a month, this is not my main money but the money for monthly living. Compared to most here in the forum that is already considered poor, since they pay more for 1 month apartment or house rent.
I would really struggle with that kinda of money to pay a maid, at least when we talk about full time. I mean I could, but I don't wanna spend more than 18 juta a month on living costs.

Where does lower middle class start here?

Ps: just made some research and apparently around 1000$ is low income and everything above , until a certain point, is lower middle.
I get by pretty good with my monthly 17-18 juta. Can't say the same about other people. Well I know we are talking about 280million people so there gotta be enough who have a good income. I was still surprised about these numbers, my perception was kinda different. Anyway..if you don't own a house and depending on your lifestyle I guess 18 juta isn't much...

There are a lot of definitions regarding middle class. Aiko Kurasawa devided in her book the middle classe in 3: lower middle class, middle middle class and upper middle class. As I remember those 3 middle classes have incomes or better said "spending powers" between 5 - 60 million rupiah per month. As an example: I spoke with a project manager in charge of building the government datacenter in Jakarta. He is paying his main building engineer 45 juta net. This engineer would be in upper middle class. But someone like this engineer with an monthly income of 45 juta has (biasanya) a family with wife and 2 - 4 children. I think he doesn't have a lot of slack, paying rent, school fees, ... groceries.

And about middle class. I wonder if they really have that kind of spending power. They mostly live on credits and bank loans. The economy of Indonesia rests on the spending power middle class. When will it collapse?

Aspiring Indonesia: Expanding the Middle Class

The middle class has been growing faster than other groups; there are now at least 52 million economically secure Indonesians, or one Indonesian in every five.

www.worldbank.org

 

[MamangDudul]

Bandar Lampung.

Never been to Lampung, but it's on the list.
By the way, about prices again. Alcohol is pretty cheap here in Batam, especially compared to Jakarta or Bali.
Sometimes they even have beer for 9.000 in the supermarket. A bottle of Jack Daniels 1 L is 420 ribu and Bombay 280 ribu. Only examples, other stuff is cheaper too. I think it's because of taxation in the trade zone here.

 

[MamangDudul]

And about middle class. I wonder if they really have that kind of spending power. They mostly live on credits and bank loans. The economy of Indonesia rests on the spending power middle class. When will it collapse?

I have the same impression.
And thanks for your post.

 

[fastpitch17]

Never been to Lampung, but it's on the list.
By the way, about prices again. Alcohol is pretty cheap here in Batam, especially compared to Jakarta or Bali.
Sometimes they even have beer for 9.000 in the supermarket. A bottle of Jack Daniels 1 L is 420 ribu and Bombay 280 ribu. Only examples, other stuff is cheaper too. I think it's because of taxation in the trade zone here.

I know Batam is cheaper in a lot of areas. Yes, has to do with the tax zone. Cheaper phones and electronics too. Just can't buy it there and transport to another area. Beer here runs about 24 rebu. Any spirits have to be ordered from Jakarta. No one sells here besides a couple clubs that will sell by the bottle but those are prices I would never consider. I know you get hit pretty hard on water like Aqua. We are still at 19 rebu per Gallon jug delivered. Can't say what beef is in the stores. I only buy imported from the US and Brasil with an occasional chunk from Australia. If I remember, top price as I passed by the meat counter was 180 rebu/kilo. I avoid chinese fruits because I just don't find any quality with them. Oz lemons, 37 rebu/kilo, bananas 17.5/kilo, apples vary depending on type. Carrots 12 rebu/kilo, potatoes 19 to 22 rebu/kilo, papaya 6 rebu/kilo, mango 19 to 28 rebu/kilo, oz Red Grapes 55 rebu/kilo.

 

[pantaiema]

Just interested, what is considered lower middle class? I personally have around 17-18 juta a month, this is not my main money but the money for monthly living. Compared to most here in the forum that is already considered poor, since they pay more for 1 month apartment or house rent.
I would really struggle with that kinda of money to pay a maid, at least when we talk about full time. I mean I could, but I don't wanna spend more than 18 juta a month on living costs.

Where does lower middle class start here?

Ps: just made some research and apparently around 1000$ is low income and everything above , until a certain point, is lower middle.
I get by pretty good with my monthly 17-18 juta. Can't say the same about other people. Well I know we are talking about 280million people so there gotta be enough who have a good income. I was still surprised about these numbers, my perception was kinda different. Anyway..if you don't own a house and depending on your lifestyle I guess 18 juta isn't much...

An income ranging from IDR17-18 million exceeds the typical average salary of Indonesian people residing in Jakarta.

For expatriates renting properties for IDR15-20 million monthly, it likely serves as a cost-effective short-term solution compared to hotel stays. If their intention to stay longer or for indefinite period I think most people will not going to pay such rent by themselves in Indonesia, as there are cheaper alternative.

If they're employed, their companies might cover accommodation expenses, similar to individuals temporarily working abroad on assignments or secondments, making the accommodation cost irrelevant in such cases.

 

[pantaiema]

Class is a misleading word to use in this context. Socio-economic group would be a better description. There are some people who are very rich but have no class at all.
Middle classes are generally seen as those in full-time employment that involves a level of skill or brainpower. But then if they lose their job for a while I don't think it makes them not middle class any more.

Middle, upper lower middle is statistical term used in any area. In statistical term using normal distribution, it is typical expressed in percentiles. For instance the 50th percentile is the median

What Is Middle Class Income? Thresholds, Is It Shrinking?

Which income class do you belong to, and what defines the different classes? It's said that the middle class is shrinking, but what does the data say?

www.investopedia.com

I have not got this data for Indonesians salary.

 

[snpark]

Reality is in Ramadan you get to post about how hard life is since all your maids and nannies and drivers have gone home for a month

 

[snpark]

Ah the old ABC1 demographic
Don't be a VIP
Be a CIP
Commercially important
Be the guest who spends every week
Not the celebrity who turns up once with a entourage and wants it all comp'd

 

[Hawk256]

Minimum monthly wage is around 4,6 million rupiah (270 US dollars). But depending which province, region, district, maids/drivers etc. get less.

Also Micro and Small business can legaly pay around half that amount but domesic workers are in a completely different situation. Some households are only paying 1.5 million IDR monthly salary for a live in maid but do provide room, board, meals and necessities.

 

[Samoerai]

Not the celebrity who turns up once with a entourage and wants it all comp'd

And wants big discounts ...

 

[Samoerai]

If you coming to Indonesia for work and your company is picking up the tab for housing and other necessities while paying you some Western salary then by all means, pay your domestic help big rupiah.

Or, when you arrive and get housing, talk to your neighbors about what they are paying. Keep it in that ball park and keep in mind, there is an annual bonus based on 1/12 of monthly wage times months worked.

Nannies are normally paid more than housekeepers and drivers more than nannies. Drivers are normally used around the house for maintenance and security when they are not driving. A driver with a car is quite a bit higher. If they speak English, they get more. When talking to people, know that Indonesian families pay the least, Chinese Indonesians next, and then foreigners with Westerners the highest. Indonesian and Chinese employers have a reputation of being very demanding to the point where it's sometimes considered abuse but people just look the other way until it is very evident.

Remember also that with live in, they have access to you 24/7 and know all your business and habits. Indonesians are also chatty with friends and family.

I would also recommend you stay far away from any so called domestic worker agents. It's a racket that only benefits mainly the agent, then maybe a worker but never the employer who is paying them.

Good advice @fastpitch17. Also before moving to Indonesia, I would checkout threads in here, like e.g. "Wonders and curiosities" and "No Indonesian culture".

 

[Samoerai]

. If I remember, top price as I passed by the meat counter was 180 rebu/kilo. I avoid chinese fruits because I just don't find any quality with them. Oz lemons, 37 rebu/kilo, bananas 17.5/kilo, apples vary depending on type. Carrots 12 rebu/kilo, potatoes 19 to 22 rebu/kilo, papaya 6 rebu/kilo, mango 19 to 28 rebu/kilo, oz Red Grapes 55 rebu/kilo.

You could make an app .. showing the prices and discounts and where to shop "hebat dan hemat". In the Netherlands there are apps to guide one to the shops and their discounts.

 

[fastpitch17]

You could make an app .. showing the prices and discounts and where to shop "hebat dan hemat". In the Netherlands there are apps to guide one to the shops and their discounts.

Why? We have maybe 10 Westerners in the city of one million. All the rest know where to shop as do the Westerners. We get maybe a thousand Westerners a year with 99.9% of them passing through going to surf or attend a surf tournament.

 

[Balifrog]

When in a couple both work extensive hours (i.e. 10 to 12h/day 6day/week), yep, having "domestics" is interesting.
In my previous life, both the wife and me worked, so we had a maid for the house and a nanny for the kid. I even had a driver in my expat contract, handy to park the car when no parking space available for a meeting... Note that the cooking was always done by us...
We brought the nanny with us for our holidays back in Europe, to be able to enjoy evenings out.
Nowadays (3rd life), we are both "retired" and care about the house ourselves.
Living inside a resort, pool, garden and general maintenance are not our responsability, so remains just the housekeeping.
Personally I consider our "cleaning" standards way above what the average staff will do, and again cooking or cleaning the kitchen is a reserved domain, no way I let some "helper" in my kitchen.

As I always say "never forget where you started, and always be able to live like that again"

I enjoyed the "confortable" full expat life style for decades, and enjoy in the same way a quiete and relaxed pensioner's lifestyle nowadays.

 

[harryopal1]

When in a couple both work extensive hours (i.e. 10 to 12h/day 6day/week), yep, having "domestics" is interesting.
In my previous life, both the wife and me worked, so we had a maid for the house and a nanny for the kid. I even had a driver in my expat contract, handy to park the car when no parking space available for a meeting... Note that the cooking was always done by us...
We brought the nanny with us for our holidays back in Europe, to be able to enjoy evenings out.

I am sure the nanny was delighted to visit Europe, however this can be a bit sticky. A not uncommon situation is for Consulate or Embassy staff employing people from their countries of origin and paying something like or even less than what is paid for back home. Immigrant families have also been caught out on this issue and seen to be exploiters then having to shell out back pay at the rates of the new country where they are staying.

 

[Balifrog]

I am sure the nanny was delighted to visit Europe, however this can be a bit sticky. A not uncommon situation is for Consulate or Embassy staff employing people from their countries of origin and paying something like or even less than what is paid for back home. Immigrant families have also been caught out on this issue and seen to be exploiters then having to shell out back pay at the rates of the new country where they are staying.

We brought for our 1 month yearly holiday.
And sure she loved it !

Plenty things to tell to her friends when returning home after one month.

 

[Samoerai]

But then if they lose their job for a while I don't think it makes them not middle class any more.

Today in the news 900 people working at Dutch FrieslandCampina (producer of milk, cheese, ..,) will lose their jobs. Worldwide 1800 jobs, mainly white collar jobs, will be cancelled due to inflation and people's decreasing "spending power", they cannot afford to buy milk and cheese anymore.

I wonder how many jobs will be cancelled in Jakarta at Frisian Flag office Komplek Pulri? Many I think ... don't see Indonesians drink a lot of milk.

 

[Ruserious]

they cannot afford to buy milk and cheese anymore

Or maybe tastes have changed to fresh milk instead of their old fashioned UHT? Definitely there is more competition in the milk market now. Not sure if that brand has kept up with the times

 

[Samoerai]

Or maybe tastes have changed to fresh milk instead of their old fashioned UHT? Definitely there is more competition in the milk market now. Not sure if that brand has kept up with the times

Strong competition definitely. Milk and butter are cheaper than before in The Netherlands and Europe. Maybe not in Indonesia, because Indonesia imports milk, I guess.
Also, still the after shock of Covid pandemic, high inflation and value of some currencies dropped significently, also the rupiah.


"Pengusaha yang bergerak dalam pengolahan susu juga bisa semakin susah karena pelemahan rupiah. Pasalnya, 80% kebutuhan susu Indonesia masih diimpor dari luar negeri. Pelaku usaha di sektor pengolahan susu menjadi salah satu yang terimbas parah akibat perang pada tahun lalu. Pelemahan rupiah diperkirakan akan membuat produsen mengerek harga untuk mengkompensasi kenaikan harga bahan baku".

Pebisnis yang Menangis dan Tersenyum Karena Ambruknya Rupiah

Pengusaha yang bisnisnya mengandalkan bahan baku impor harus rela menelan pil pahit akibat beban yang membengkak.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

Interesting article. Companies in the import industry are in a difficult spot. Wonder if that will lead to more people losing their job and ultimately to a recession in Indonesia?