DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

[Balifrog]

they have the same re eating burgers and guzzling coke

Absolutely, and the more the better....

Makes my handsome body combined with my Latin charm work like a charm with girls....

 

[ChrisTex]

Once it hits all the villages, there is no longer any tracing or isolation possible. There are just too many people, spread over too much geography. There will be many deaths, and God knows how many of them were preventable.

This has been one of the reasons why I always believed the covid cases/deaths are higher than what has been reported from the very beginning. I believed it has already hit the villages and other remote places months ago(maybe even 1 year), but it has been going unreported.

 

[HappyMan]

There is a tendency to underrate the importance of improved access to nutritious food, clean water and vastly improved hygiene and sanitary systems when considering public health. Science and medical achievements have contributed but are overrated.

All of the positives you mention are science and medicine based. Most of the negatives are not, unless you are putting the abuse of psychology and behavioural economics into the science category.

 

[harryopal1]

All of the positives you mention are science and medicine based. Most of the negatives are not, unless you are putting the abuse of psychology and behavioural economics into the science category.

I take your point. However, I would suggest then that the science and medical study focused on nutrition and maintenance of good health has produced benefits often overlooked with the hype over wonder drugs and gee whizz innovations in surgery.

 

[HappyMan]

I take your point. However, I would suggest then that the science and medical study focused on nutrition and maintenance of good health has produced benefits often overlooked with the hype over wonder drugs and gee whizz innovations in surgery.

I'd agree with that. It does seem like 99% of science/medicine stuff you hear about on the news has a tiny, little scope of effect. Not at all useless, just useful for a very specific set of people.
Meanwhile you have people like Kati Kariko (largely responsible for the development of mRNA treatment methods) toiling away behind the scenes at something people like myself are unlikely to properly understand or appreciate.

The Unlikely Pioneer Behind mRNA Vaccines (Published 2021)

Dr. Katalin Kariko has played a crucial role in bringing coronavirus vaccines to millions. She had to overcome years of doubt and disinterest to do so.

www.google.com

 

[Bad_azz]

Such sad & disturbing news for Indonesia:
"At least 1,245 Indonesian children have died from coronavirus since the pandemic began, although the actual number is thought to be higher, given the low level of testing for the virus in remote areas.

The majority of those who died were under the age of five"

Devastated Indonesian parents mourn children lost to COVID-19

The archipelago has seen a surge in child deaths since the Delta variant took hold in July.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Dharma Police]

Such sad & disturbing news for Indonesia:
"At least 1,245 Indonesian children have died from coronavirus since the pandemic began, although the actual number is thought to be higher, given the low level of testing for the virus in remote areas.

The majority of those who died were under the age of five"

Devastated Indonesian parents mourn children lost to COVID-19

The archipelago has seen a surge in child deaths since the Delta variant took hold in July.

www.aljazeera.com

Yet another reason why I refuse to have domestic help in my house. At this stage, if you can't remember to keep my kids' masks on at a crowded playground, or wash your hands after handling Tokped packages, I don't want you.

I also refused to go back to the office, at the risk of undermining my boss. Chinese-Indonesians, locals, European, American, and Koreans work there (and half the staff have gotten covid). I wouldn't want people to accuse me of "racism"

 

[harryopal1]

May 27, US President Biden ordered intelligence officials to renew investigation into laboratory leaks as a possible source of the Covid 19 virus. He ordered officials go get back to him in 90 days.
The CCP described this as a smear and indicated it would not allow further visits to Wuhan. In the absence of Chinese cooperation one wonders how US intelligence agencies would be able to gather reliable or authoritative information.

There is no denial of the existence of bacteriological virus research laboratories around the world. From a CCP point of view I imagine the possibility of bacteriological warfare might be seen as just another form of weaponry. Hardly more diabolical than the nuclear capability of wiping out millions of people in the event of conflict. While western powers may insist that biological warfare is unacceptable I am sure it would be seen as a necessity to prepare for such a possibility if only in defensive terms. It would seem probable then that a variety of killer virus and other bacteria exist in laboratories around the world. How many times have we heard governments insist that nuclear power stations are fail safe? And when there is leak or malfunction, "Don't worry it is only a minor incident and there is no danger." We humans make mistakes and it seems inevitable that there will be leaks from laboratories.

We are just over a week away from the US intelligence authorities reporting back to Biden. It will be interesting to see if this becomes a big story or if events like the Taliban take over in Afghanistan will allow the virus leak report to be quietly tucked away somewhere.

 

[Balifrog]

Accident happens, human error is human, keeping it "discreet" or sweeping it under the carpet is sadly also human nature....

Very often it works, but sometimes the consequences are so visible that sweeping is not an option anymore. That's where you call in the P.R. guys and the speech writers....

 

[dafluff]

Two papers investigating specifically inactivated vaccines (Sinovac, Sinopharm) vaccine against Delta variant.

Efficacy of inactivated SARS-CoV-2 vaccines against the Delta variant infection in Guangzhou: A test-negative case-control real-world study

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/22221751.2021.1969291

After adjusting for age and sex, the overall VE for two-dose vaccination was 59.0% (95% confidence interval: 16.0% to 81.6%) against coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) and 70.2% (95% confidence interval: 29.6% to 89.3%) against moderate COVID-19 and 100% against severe COVID-19 which might overestimate due to the small sample size.

Effectiveness of Inactivated COVID-19 Vaccines Against COVID-19 Pneumonia and Severe Illness Caused by the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant: Evidence from an Outbreak in Guangdong, China​

Effectiveness of Inactivated COVID-19 Vaccines Against COVID-19 Pneumonia and Severe Illness Caused by the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant: Evidence from an Outbreak in Guangdong, China

Background: Real-world evidence (RWE) of a vaccine supplements clinical trial data by providing information in populations differing from clinical trial populat

papers.ssrn.com

Unadjusted and adjusted VE of full vaccination against pneumonia were 77·7% (95% CI 45·1–90·9) and 69·5% (95% CI 42·8–96·3), respectively. Full vaccination was 100% effective against severe illness. Unadjusted and adjusted VE of partial vaccination against pneumonia were 1·4% (95% CI -79·7–45·9) and 8·4% (95% CI -47·6–64·4). Interpretation Full vaccination with inactivated vaccines is effective against pneumonia, severe, and critical illness caused by the B.1.617.2 variant. Effort should be placed to ensure full vaccination of target populations.

​

 

[ChrisTex]

This was shared in a WA group. Moderna is apparently available if your KTP is for Jakarta.

 

[fastpitch17]

Because Jakarta gets to horde the vaccines.

 

[ChrisTex]

Now that Moderna is here in Indonesia, something to keep an eye on.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-officials-probe-whether-moderna-024320569.html

 

[R Cameron]

Now that Moderna is here in Indonesia, something to keep an eye on.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-officials-probe-whether-moderna-024320569.html

Myocarditis has been a mild concern for months, it is notable that Moderna has a higher incidence than Pfizer, likely because it is a higher dose. I have seen some places recommend that people take a few days off from vigorous exercise to reduce the liklihood.

Here the US military found 23 cases among 2.8 million vaccinated young males (the demographic at highest risk for this adverse event), and "All patients received brief supportive care and were recovered or recovering at the time of this report."

And the most important part in that Yahoo article you posted is this:

"But the CDC's vaccine advisers, at a June 24 meeting, said that getting covid-19, the illness caused by the virus, puts someone at far greater risk of heart inflammation and other serious medical problems than the risk of developing myocarditis from vaccination."

 

[ChrisTex]

i found this interesting as I think it seems to apply here. I know a number of my friends who are more of the, 'let's get on with life/what is the point to all this if there are going to be new variants?'.

'Exhaustion,' 'frustration': Why some vaccinated people are losing motivation to stay safe

Even as delta-driven cases of COVID-19 surge, there's a wave of vaccinated people who are starting to lose motivation to stay safe.

www.yahoo.com

 

[waarmstrong]

There is a correlation between the size of "let's get on with life" crowd and the rapidity and volume of new cases, and thus the probability that new variants will appear; further, experience suggests that "new" will include more easily spread and more deadly varieties of mutations.

Reminds me of the type of impatient freeway driver who put themselves and others at risk by thoughtless and imprudent maneuvers to gain a few car lengths. They eventually cause accidents, sometimes deadly accidents.

 

[harryopal1]

There is a correlation between the size of "let's get on with life" crowd and the rapidity and volume of new cases, and thus the probability that new variants will appear; further, experience suggests that "new" will include more easily spread and more deadly varieties of mutations.

Reminds me of the type of impatient freeway driver who put themselves and others at risk by thoughtless and imprudent maneuvers to gain a few car lengths. They eventually cause accidents, sometimes deadly accidents.

The impatience with lockdowns and rolling out vaccines becomes desperate as the economic impact leaves more and more people with inadequate income to stay afloat. This can be somewhat managed in developed countries which can provide some sort of income support but countries such as Indonesia do not have that cushion. The outlook ahead seems to offer little hope for so many. Increasingly though we are now seeing more protests in developed countries. Having had the good fortune to retire and wind up a business in 2017 I have empathy for those small business owners who have had to try and cope with successive lockdowns. Many have just given up are stuck with debt burdens.

It seems probable that things will get worse before they start to get better.

 

[Balifrog]

I am a member of the "get on with life" since the beginning.

At 68 I don't plan to waste even 1 day locking myself up trembling with fear.

On the other hand there is a BIG difference between living in a crowded city with subway and busses, polution, etc ... and living in a quiete seaside ressort.

Edit : And at 68 I dont go to nightclubs, discos or mega soccer games !

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Interesting study from Bahrain:

Out of 3,000 AstraZeneca recipients included in the study who caught Covid, only 45 were hospitalised (1.52 per cent) and just one died from the virus (0.03 per cent).

Out of 2,000 Pfizer recipients who caught the virus, 40 were hospitalised (1.99 per cent) and three died from the virus (0.15 per cent).

Out of 3,000 Sputnik recipients who caught the virus, 77 were hospitalised (2.24 per cent) and three died (0.09 per cent).

For the Sinopharm vaccine there were 24,000 cases, of whom 1,683 were hospitalised (6.94 per cent) and 112 died (0.46 per cent).

And among the un-vaccinated almost 65,000 caught the virus, of whom almost 9,000 were hospitalised (13.22 per cent) and 857 died (1.32 per cent).

Maybe AZ is the best after all!

Vaccines work, but higher infection risk in over-50s who got Sinopharm vs Pfizer: Bahrain study | EconomyNext

economynext.com

 

[snpark]

AZ with Pf for the 2nd shot is the best combo