Nuclear submarines and regional security.

[Bob]

NATO is still having cold war mentality (ever since the break-up of the USSR more than 30 years ago).

Just because the Soviet Union disbanded didn't mean that Russia and the NATO countries wouldn't have disputes. As we've seen recently.

 

[Balifrog]

At the same time Putin has overtly been clear that he wants Russia to be great again by incorporating now independent countries which had been part of the USSR

Wrong, Putin just wanted to keep a "zone of influence" Political and economical.
The Ukraine problem started in 2014 when the choice was to be made to get closer to Russia or the EU.
The pro russian government was overthrown, Maidan maihem started. As usual the US jumped on the opportunity to stirr up the shit.... Remember Victoria Nulen together with the US ambassador making the list of their future "preferred" UKR government ?
Remember V.Nulen saying clearly "fuck the EU" ?
From there on, included the Minsk agreements 1 and 2 drawned up without intention to enforce them (admitted by Merkel and F.Holland), it was all downhill.

 

[Balifrog]

However, there have been frequent references to this aspiration of "making Russia great again

So MAGA is OK but making Russia great again is not ?
Remember in what state Russia was when Putin inherited it ?
Yes, he rebuild it.

 

[jstar]

Remember in what state Russia was when Putin inherited it ?
Yes, he rebuild it.

I can agree with your first MAGA sentence but this is somewhat over the top. If there is a society with nepotism, corruption and political violence, it’s the Russian. See what happened to many of the oligarchs lately. This is rather similar to Suharto times in Indonesia.

 

[Balifrog]

I can agree with your first MAGA sentence but this is somewhat over the top. If there is a society with nepotism, corruption and political violence, it’s the Russian. See what happened to many of the oligarchs lately. This is rather similar to Suharto times in Indonesia.

I hope you are speaking out of ignorance....
Comparing Suharto times and Putin....the mind boggles.

 

[jstar]

Comparing Suharto times and Putin....the mind boggles.

Not so difficult to comprehend, depending on the particular mind of course. Just look up Suharto and read…

 

[Dave70]

I can agree with your first MAGA sentence but this is somewhat over the top. If there is a society with nepotism, corruption and political violence, it’s the Russian. See what happened to many of the oligarchs lately. This is rather similar to Suharto times in Indonesia.

Oligarchs used to run Russia, but since 2000 they don’t have political power anymore. That year, Putin told them to stay out of politics in a meeting with 18 of the wealthiest oligarchs. Some of the oligarchs were later arrested (or fled the country to evade arrest) for defying Putin or got caught bribing state officials.

So Putin dismantled oligarchy which is not “rather similar” to Suharto’s crony capitalism.

 

[harryopal1]

Jstar, You are wasting your nervous energy engaging Dave70. He runs with his "correct line" with a view of Russia favoured by the CCP no matter whatever evidence might persuade a person open to debate. According to Forbes, "Thirty-nine billionaires sanctioned by Western countries have regained a staggering $104 billion since last March, and are down merely 13% since the day before Vladimir Putin’s invasion."

Some members of the privileged oligarchy have fallen out of favour with Putin but it is nonsense to say Putin dismantled the oligarchy. For a serious outline of the privileged here is a link to the full article.

Why Western Sanctions Failed To Truly Impact The Wealth Of Russia’s Billionaire Oligarchs

Thirty-nine billionaires sanctioned by Western countries have regained a staggering $104 billion since last March, and are down merely 13% since the day before Vladimir Putin’s invasion.

www.forbes.com

 

[jstar]

Oligarchs used to run Russia, but since 2000 they don’t have political power anymore.

Just like @Balifrog you seem to be focused (or stuck) somewhat on/in the past century. In the ‘90ies, due to rapid privatization, the previous group of oligarchs came up. But if you would familiarize yourself with the Putin era and consider the new generation, the silovarchs, you would see they got filthy rich under Putin! Government contracts were the key. Does that ring a bell already with Suharto? Corruption and nepotism, not coincidently those siloviki were judo buddies or ex army or KGB. Just like…

 

[jstar]

The New York Times found that a profile matching that of Jack Teixeira shared secret intelligence on messaging service Discord as early as February 2022. So that’s much sooner than thought previously. The group in which he shared the documents had about 600 members (vs the 50 of the other group).

Among other things they saw information about the number of deaths in Ukraine, spy agencies in Moscow and the nature of the assistance that had been offered to Ukraine. In the messages, the sender claimed that the documents came from the NSA, the CIA and other intelligence agencies.

 

[Dave70]

Some members of the privileged oligarchy have fallen out of favour with Putin but it is nonsense to say Putin dismantled the oligarchy. For a serious outline of the privileged here is a link to the full article.

Yes, Putin dismantled oligarchy (of their political power). Below article is written by Dr. Jade McGlynn, a British researcher.

Russia has no more oligarchs

Western sanctions are based on a miscalculation

unherd.com

 

[Dave70]

Just like @Balifrog you seem to be focused (or stuck) somewhat on/in the past century. In the ‘90ies, due to rapid privatization, the previous group of oligarchs came up. But if you would familiarize yourself with the Putin era and consider the new generation, the silovarchs, you would see they got filthy rich under Putin! Government contracts were the key. Does that ring a bell already with Suharto? Corruption and nepotism, not coincidently those siloviki were judo buddies or ex army or KGB. Just like…

I don't understand why you said I'm focused (or stuck) in the past century. If I'm stuck in the past, then I would think that Russia is still poor, people have no money, and stores are empty of goods.

Anyway, one thing Suharto didn't do was arresting a tycoon for bribing a state official. That made Putin different from Suharto. Did you know about Boris Spiegel (Pharma King of Russia)? He was arrested along with the Governor who received his gifts in 2021.

 

[harryopal1]

"Russia has no more oligarchs Western sanctions are based on a miscalculation BY JADE MCGLYNN"

An interesting point of view but there is plenty of analysis of the present state of affairs based on the belief that there is still a Russian oligarchy. When one looks at the great wealth still held by the elites it seems unlikely they would be without political influence. I would not argue against the proposition that Putin has made it clear that the oligarchy toes the line or else. However, I don't get the impression that Putin is determined to stamp out corruption when there seems plenty of evidence that Russian politics are corrupt as is Putin himself. Evidently he has become very wealthy in his own right.

 

[Dave70]

However, I don't get the impression that Putin is determined to stamp out corruption when there seems plenty of evidence that Russian politics are corrupt as is Putin himself. Evidently he has become very wealthy in his own right.

"Correct thinking" about Russia from the Western media perspective.

Is there evidence behind the assertion that Putin is corrupt?

 

[jstar]

Come on David, nobody has any ‘evidence’ on anything. Otherwise there would be international lawsuits. Nor on Hunter Biden, Clinton and Trump btw. And I don’t see them prosecuting the Suharto family either. But that doesn’t mean we should wear blinders…

 

[harryopal1]

There is a huge range of investigative reports describing Putin's wealth. An example is LeMonde:
"One example is "Putin's Palace" a sumptuous property on the Black Sea, which his opponent Alexei Navalny estimated at $1 billion (about €950 million), and which is officially owned by billionaire Arkadi Rotenberg, a longtime friend and judo partner of the Russian president. The same goes for the vineyards adjacent to the property, which are owned by oligarch Gennady Timchenko and the son of a childhood friend of Mr. Putin. Not to mention the Russian ski resort Igora, linked to Svetlana Krivonoguikh, who is reputed to have a long-standing love affair with Mr. Putin."

So I suppose the gaoling of Alexei Navalny is also another falsehood

No. More responding to Dave's arguments.

 

[Dave70]

There is a huge range of investigative reports describing Putin's wealth. An example is LeMonde:
"One example is "Putin's Palace" a sumptuous property on the Black Sea, which his opponent Alexei Navalny estimated at $1 billion (about €950 million), and which is officially owned by billionaire Arkadi Rotenberg, a longtime friend and judo partner of the Russian president. The same goes for the vineyards adjacent to the property, which are owned by oligarch Gennady Timchenko and the son of a childhood friend of Mr. Putin. Not to mention the Russian ski resort Igora, linked to Svetlana Krivonoguikh, who is reputed to have a long-standing love affair with Mr. Putin."

So I suppose the gaoling of Alexei Navalny is also another falsehood

No. More responding to Dave's arguments.

Of course, do you know who Alexei Navalny is? He is backed and financed by the NED. Whether or not he also works for the CIA (as accused by Russia) is unproven. But NED or National Endowment for Democracy is a known CIA front, that's for sure.

Putin is beyond material wealth, his only obsession is making Russia great again. Do you think he wants another billion or two enriching himself? Allegations of Alexei Navalny remains just that, an unproven allegation which could be true or false.

@harryopal, as I said, you don't have to respond if you think it is a complete waste of your time. I know you are frustrated but telling others not to engage with me is condescending of you. As if you are the owner of this forum.

Ideology is two sides of the same coin, so both of us could be hitting our heads against that ideological wall. You are trying to present "facts" obtained from the Western press, likewise I do the same albeit sourced alternatively sometimes.

You call me names, but I don't care. I remember you said that I must be a Chinese because I defend China. In case you don't know, many Westerners, both inside and outside China, are now defending China against all those smears and disinformation. Nevertheless, even if I am a Chinese, what is wrong with being a Chinese? Are Chinese not allowed in this forum? Based on your logic, 'R Cameron' must be an American because he defends the USA. Now that I am defending Russia, I must be Russian? Aah, you are now saying I'm CCP, and the reason why the CCP is defending Russia. No way you can label me a Russian now because you have labeled me a Chinese before. Are you classifying forum members based on race?

 

[jstar]

And in the mean time in another part of the world:

A Japanese cargo plane takes off from Komaki Japan, to evacuate Japanese citizens from Sudan.

.

 

[Balifrog]

So Russian oligargues are bad, but American / Western billionaires are good ?

Americans critizing Putin's fortune make me laugh.... coming from a country where to run for President being a millionaire / billionaire is a minimum requirement.....
Suharto ..... US / CIA closed their eyes or encouraged his actions, don't forget !

 

[harryopal1]

So Russian oligargues are bad, but American / Western billionaires are good ?

Americans critizing Putin's fortune make me laugh.... coming from a country where to run for President being a millionaire / billionaire is a minimum requirement.....
Suharto ..... US / CIA closed their eyes or encouraged his actions, don't forget !

Simply criticizing the Russian system does not mean one is automatically uncritical of Western corruption. I am well aware of the nefarious activities of the CIA and the intrigues of the US government. Blair's decided not to have an enquiry into bribery involving UK Saudi arms dealing as he said it was not in the national interest. Most of the western major arms and aviation manufacturers have been caught out from time to time involving massive amounts of bribery. Some years ago the Australian Wheat Board was found to have paid massive bribes to ensure continuity of exports to Egypt. The focus on Russia of late is due to the worldwide disruptions associated with Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the inflationary impact being felt almost everywhere.