Homelessness

[Shadrach]

The videos above just a few examples. YouTube and other social media platforms will reveal countless stories of individuals embracing life on the road.


I completely agree that some homeless individuals are decent people who have unintentionally found themselves in that situation, and I acknowledged that in my previous post. However, there are better solutions for those seeking help. When Australian citizens suddenly lose their jobs, don’t they receive unemployment benefits from the state? Now, compare that to illegal immigrants living in Australia how many of them are sleeping rough on the streets? If they sleep rough on the streets, they risk being caught by the police. They face an even tougher situation, forced to live in hiding to avoid immigration authorities, with no state benefits and very limited access to healthcare.

"Although the Australian Bureau of Statistics doesn’t track the exact number of people living in vans, data from 2021 indicates that 772,627 caravans and camper vans were registered across the country". This number has likely increased in recent years especially when factoring in unregistered vehicles used for off-grid living. The soaring price of renting, especially in some of the world’s most expensive cities in the world.

Why more women are choosing a solo van life over traditional bricks and mortar

Hitting the open road in search of adventure sounds undeniably romantic, but for many women living the solo van life, it's more about economic necessity than escapism.

www.abc.net.au

Why More Australian Women Are Choosing Solo Van Life

Regarding the question of how they manage basic sanitary needs ?Well, people can learn from those who have experienced it. But shouldn’t the same question be asked of people experiencing homelessness and sleeping rough on the streets?

How Do You Handle Bathroom Needs When Living in a Van?

How do you handle "bathroom needs" when living a van life?

Answer (1 of 3): I’d keep a jar for pissing in. Piss is pretty benign so I’d feel free to piss in the bushes or behind a dumpster or on the tire of a big truck. It seemed that I trained myself so that I only needed to poop during hours that the libraries or the Starbucks were open. Occasionally I...

www.quora.com

But from what I have learnt, some van dwellers rely on affordable basic gym memberships that provide access to showers and restrooms. Public facilities such as those in fast-food outlets (McDonald's, KFC, Nando’s, etc), shopping centre, libraries, and community centres also offer accessible restrooms. Some camper van is also installed with camper van toilet. Not to mention if they are still working they have access to bathroom, toilets in the work place.

For accidental homeless, van life isn’t a lifestyle choice, but it could be a temporary solution to sudden homelessness. In such cases, living in a vehicle while not as comfortable as a home is often a safer and more humane alternative to sleeping rough on the street. As housing affordability worsens, van living may continue to rise as a viable option for those struggling to make ends meet.

When it comes to homeless families with children, I have travelled to many big cities in the developed world where the cost of living are very high, yet I don’t recall ever seeing children sleeping rough on the streets. A possible explanation for this might be in my post #11. I wonder how many children are currently sleeping rough on the streets in Australia?

There is usually a solution, temporary solution for those who are willing to find one, especially when many others have been doing that.

You still don't get it? Yes there are many homeless people With Children living in vehicles, and on the streets. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. And going to those places to use the toilet, and maybe shower, are not as open, and easy as you think. Many places require a person to buy something to use their toilet. You don't seem to understand the emotional aspect of what these people are going through.
You do sound like a promotion for the city council. And people with a toilet in their vehicle, have to find a place to empty it. Which is not Easy!
I know from experience. I lived in a 7 meter long Motorhome for 15 years in the US. I was lucky enough to have an income from selling imports from Asia. I would travel to a Festival, stay for 4 days, pack up and try to find a suitable place to park, and camp until the next show. Believe me, It became a fine Art hiding from Police, and authorities everywhere. If a person doesn't have a HOME, they are not considered equal to those that play the game, and work 9 to 5 six days a week!
I suggest you go to Australia or America, and get a car, or van. Make it your home, and see how you get treated out there in the World! I think it might show you the true reality of what it's like.

 

[pantaiema]

You still don't get it? Yes there are many homeless people With Children living in vehicles, and on the streets. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. And going to those places to use the toilet, and maybe shower, are not as open, and easy as you think. Many places require a person to buy something to use their toilet. You don't seem to understand the emotional aspect of what these people are going through.
You do sound like a promotion for the city council. And people with a toilet in their vehicle, have to find a place to empty it. Which is not Easy!
I know from experience. I lived in a 7 meter long Motorhome for 15 years in the US. I was lucky enough to have an income from selling imports from Asia. I would travel to a Festival, stay for 4 days, pack up and try to find a suitable place to park, and camp until the next show. Believe me, It became a fine Art hiding from Police, and authorities everywhere. If a person doesn't have a HOME, they are not considered equal to those that play the game, and work 9 to 5 six days a week!
I suggest you go to Australia or America, and get a car, or van. Make it your home, and see how you get treated out there in the World! I think it might show you the true reality of what it's like.

Certainly, sleeping in your own home is more comfortable than staying in a camper van. However, if a reasonable person will have to choose either sleeping in a mobile home or sleeping rough on the streets, which do you think they would choose?

As for housing for children, I understand that they are protected by Article 27 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC), every child has the right to a standard of living that supports their well-being, including safe and adequate housing. Let alone we are talking about developed world. However, if a parent does not report an issue or takes advantage of the situation, it becomes a different matter altogether. There are definitely gypsy families living in caravans. This is a well known fact and there are a lot of documentaries about it. There are also family with children are camping on the park, on the forest taking their children to caravan sites, experience living in country site. I wonder if they have reported this to the authority as being homeless family.

 

[harryopal1]

Certainly, sleeping in your own home is more comfortable than staying in a camper van. However, if a reasonable person were given the choice between sleeping in a mobile home or on the streets, which do you think they would choose?

As for housing for children, I understand that they are protected by Article 27 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC), every child has the right to a standard of living that supports their well-being, including safe and adequate housing. Let alone we are talking about developed world. However, if a parent does not report an issue or takes advantage of the situation, it becomes a different matter altogether. There are definitely gypsy families living in caravans. This is a well known fact and there are a lot of documentaries about it.

Article 27 of the UN Convention may state the "rights" of children but it is not a magic wand. There are now thousands of people, not a few, with children who do not have vans and have resorted to living in tents while more councils now are trying to stop tents being set up in public parks.

I really don't understand why you cling to your notions that any "reasonable person" can easily find accommodation. Yes, Australians can receive unemployment and other benefits including the pension but none of these benefits are enough to cover a minimum of at least $450 a week for the simplest of units and allow for utility costs (gas - electricity) and food.

At this time there seems nothing to be achieved in trying to have you understand that poverty and homelessness has reached a crisis level in Australia and other developed countries. You have your point of view and I shall leave it at that.

 

[Shadrach]

Certainly, sleeping in your own home is more comfortable than staying in a camper van. However, if a reasonable person were given the choice between sleeping in a mobile home or on the streets, which do you think they would choose?

As for housing for children, I understand that they are protected by Article 27 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC), every child has the right to a standard of living that supports their well-being, including safe and adequate housing. Let alone we are talking about developed world. However, if a parent does not report an issue or takes advantage of the situation, it becomes a different matter altogether. There are definitely gypsy families living in caravans. This is a well known fact and there are a lot of documentaries about it.

This is Amazing that you present Article 27 of the (UNCRC)! I wonder if the Kids in Ukraine, Gaza, Angola, and The Congo, Etc, have been informed that they are being Protected? Maybe the parents just haven't found the time to report an issue, due to them having to Hide, and Run, dodging Russian, and Israel Bombs, and different Factions, fighting for Control of their Country at the Moment! I'm sure they'll get around to it when they can!

 

[Balifrog]

Having worked several years on construction sites all over France, many of us choose to live in caravans. A bit like gypsies.
It takes a bit of an investment. A proper caravan + the adequate car, usually a Merc diesel or Citroen DS or CX, but you save on hotel, restaurant costs as well as travelling home every W.E.
They stayed on campgrounds (usually municipal) near the project. Many long term project like nuclear power plants, often had their own campground. It allowed to travel with the family, put the kids in the local school, and the campgrounds had showers, toilets, etc.
I did it with my VW Combi camper for a time.
From the camping ground to the jobsite by bicycle.
But that was in the 80's. Nowadays the new generation doesn't want to live like that.

 

[Shadrach]

Having worked several years on construction sites all over France, many of us choose to live in caravans. A bit like gypsies.
It takes a bit of an investment. A proper caravan + the adequate car, usually a Merc diesel or Citroen DS or CX, but you save on hotel, restaurant costs as well as travelling home every W.E.
They stayed on campgrounds (usually municipal) near the project. Many long term project like nuclear power plants, often had their own campground. It allowed to travel with the family, put the kids in the local school, and the campgrounds had showers, toilets, etc.
I did it with my VW Combi camper for a time.
From the camping ground to the jobsite by bicycle.
But that was in the 80's. Nowadays the new generation doesn't want to live like that.

I tell you, I loved my Motorhome lifestyle, getting to travel all up and down the West coast of The US. Plus being able to make a living selling Bali Arts, Crafts, and Clothing , we designed. At Music festivals, It worked wonderfully for Me, and my Bali Friends. I was able to support many families for years, and make just enough for me, to keep doing it for many years.
But Alas, the US economy took a dive, and people had to tighten their belts! Just as I was really learning, and buying better quality Art to sell to the people there, they couldn't afford it anymore. So I had to lower the quality, and the price! When it got to the point, I was only making as much money, as I was spending. I had to quit! At that time, there was a lot of people living in Vans, Buses, and Motorhomes. It became a lifestyle. Maybe nowadays it's not so easy, due to so many restrictions, in Towns, and Cities. People don't like it when they see someone living a more Free lifestyle, while they have Jobs they Hate, High Mortgages to be payed, both the Wife and Husband working, and the Children becoming strangers. So more rules are enforced, and then everyone suffers!
With the current situation in The US, and Australia. I don't know about Europe. People are reaching a Breaking Point! I see on the News, average people in The States, now are realizing they are not getting what they voted for. They are getting angry, that the most basic fundamental services, are being slashed and cut, While The Ultra Rich are getting Huge Tax Breaks!
It is just not right Social Security, Education, Veterans benefits, and even Medicare for Children, are being cut, to benefit the Rich! When they start losing their homes, and become Homeless, the Ultra Rich better start running! Because people can only take so much, before they Stand Up for their Rights!

 

[Bob]

And the religious people to whom they devote so much of their lives do absolutely nothing to help homeless people or people in severe poverty. They are just ignored as an inconvenience, while turning the loudspeaker up to 11.

That's painting with an extremely broad brush. Many religious people and organizations work to help the homeless.

 

[Hawk256]

That's painting with an extremely broad brush. Many religious people and organizations work to help the homeless.

Agree. I know quite a few people that spend a much larger amount of their income that you would believe on charity and they never flaunt it.

 

[Shadrach]

That's painting with an extremely broad brush. Many religious people and organizations work to help the homeless.

You're taking this out of context! There is no Social safety Net in Indonesia! Maybe you are referring to Western countries?

 

[Shadrach]

Are Humans really the Most intelligent Species?

 

[Bob]

You're taking this out of context! There is no Social safety Net in Indonesia! Maybe you are referring to Western countries?

Eastern, including Indonesia, and Western. Many in Indonesia go far above and beyond what's mandated by their creed. That's not taking anything out of context.

 

[Shadrach]

This my attitude towards life Now!
I know I have less time to live than I have already lived.
I feel like a child who has been given a box of chocolates. He enjoys them with pleasure and, when he sees that few are left, he begins to eat them with a special taste.
I have no time for endless discussions about public laws - nothing will change. And I have no desire to argue with fools who do not behave according to their age. There is no time to fight mediocrity. I do not attend meetings where egos are inflated and I cannot stand manipulators.
I am bothered by envious people who try to discredit the most capable in order to appropriate their positions, talents and successes.
I have too little time to argue about newspaper headlines - my soul is in a hurry.
Too few chocolates left in the box.
I am interested in authentic people. People who laugh at their mistakes, who are successful, who understand their calling and do not hide from responsibility. People who defend human dignity and want to stand on the side of truth, justice, and righteousness. That's what life is worth living for.
I want to surround myself with people who know how to touch the hearts of others. People who, through the blows of fate, have managed to get up and maintain the sweetness of their soul.
Yes, I hurry, I hurry to live with the intensity that only maturity can give. I will eat all the chocolates I have left - they will taste better than the ones I have already eaten.
My goal is to reach the end in harmony with myself, with my loved ones and with my conscience.
I thought I had two lives, but it turns out I only have one, and it must be lived with dignity.”

 

[harryopal1]

In an earlier post on this issue of homelessness Pantaime seemed to think that in Australia most homeless and van living people did so as a matter of choice and found it hard to accept that this issue is at a crisis level in Australia.

Pantaime said "In Australia, If someone finds themselves without a place to stay for the night, they can arrange a quick phone interview with the local council, which will typically provide accommodation in a hostel nearby. " if this was not the case then it could be further dicussed using various countries as comparison"

Today the ABC news covered a situation in Brisbane Queensland where councils had recently bulldozed parks of tents lived in by homess people and Brisbane council was about to bulldoze another site in a park. A human rights group had taken the matter to court.

One quote from the article: "They are in many cases ill, one is pregnant, many suffer from debilitating anxiety or depression, none have been offered social housing after being on the social housing waiting list for years."

Here is a link to the full story. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-07-02/court-pauses-moreton-bay-homeless-camp-demolition/105484868

The Federal government and some state governments are patting themselves on the back for building programs that may result in thousands of more homes and units perhaps in the next ten years or so. At the local council level there tends to be little sympathy for those doing it hard and living in tents.

As an Australian I find it hard to accept tht this is not seen as a national emergency while we are committed to hundreds of billions of dollars for defence. A fundamental element of defence is to do with the well being of citizens. There seems to a total disconnect with politicians living on great salaries and the prospect of high, life long pensions up to $200,000 year while the average aged pensioner gets just under $30,000 a year. That may seem generous but with accommodation costs for a simple unit running at least $23,400 a year there is not much left for the basics of food, utilitiesand other living costs.

For a family with four children and where the breadwinner has lost his or her job, the total allowance is $2,732.60a fortnight. If a couple were prepared to have all 4 children in one bedroom and rented a 2 bedroom house the average cost would be about $1200 a fortnight meaning providing food and everything else for six people on around on a bit less than $400 a week.

In the event of a family having to move from a rental there is a general relectance for estate agents to be eager to rent to families. And this has been the plight of many Australian families struggling to survive. In my view, overall, this is a national crisis.

 

[john madden]

Well said Harry. When governments speak of defence spending they express it in terms of %age of GDP, say 2%. Little impact on the public's consciousness. When they talk welfare it's always expressed in $s, say $200 million. Big impact on perception. Manipulative bastards.

 

[pantaiema]

In an earlier post on this issue of homelessness Pantaime seemed to think that in Australia most homeless and van living people did so as a matter of choice and found it hard to accept that this issue is at a crisis level in Australia.

Pantaime said "In Australia, If someone finds themselves without a place to stay for the night, they can arrange a quick phone interview with the local council, which will typically provide accommodation in a hostel nearby. " if this was not the case then it could be further dicussed using various countries as comparison"

Today the ABC news covered a situation in Brisbane Queensland where councils had recently bulldozed parks of tents lived in by homess people and Brisbane council was about to bulldoze another site in a park. A human rights group had taken the matter to court.

One quote from the article: "They are in many cases ill, one is pregnant, many suffer from debilitating anxiety or depression, none have been offered social housing after being on the social housing waiting list for years."

Here is a link to the full story. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-07-02/court-pauses-moreton-bay-homeless-camp-demolition/105484868

The Federal government and some state governments are patting themselves on the back for building programs that may result in thousands of more homes and units perhaps in the next ten years or so. At the local council level there tends to be little sympathy for those doing it hard and living in tents.

As an Australian I find it hard to accept tht this is not seen as a national emergency while we are committed to hundreds of billions of dollars for defence. A fundamental element of defence is to do with the well being of citizens. There seems to a total disconnect with politicians living on great salaries and the prospect of high, life long pensions up to $200,000 year while the average aged pensioner gets just under $30,000 a year. That may seem generous but with accommodation costs for a simple unit running at least $23,400 a year there is not much left for the basics of food, utilitiesand other living costs.

For a family with four children and where the breadwinner has lost his or her job, the total allowance is $2,732.60a fortnight. If a couple were prepared to have all 4 children in one bedroom and rented a 2 bedroom house the average cost would be about $1200 a fortnight meaning providing food and everything else for six people on around on a bit less than $400 a week.

In the event of a family having to move from a rental there is a general relectance for estate agents to be eager to rent to families. And this has been the plight of many Australian families struggling to survive. In my view, overall, this is a national crisis.

I actually did not intend to continue this discussion, but since my name has been mentioned, I feel compelled to clarify my previous comments.

I don’t fully understand the reasons behind dismantling the tent camps. Is it because the land is privately owned and being used illegally? Or is it state-owned land required for an infrastructure project?

Since I’m not fully informed on the matter, I prefer not to comment further. Similar actions are also taken in both developing and developed countries. I don’t wish to engage in another debate about whether it’s justified or not.

Referring back to my earlier comparison: how many undocumented immigrants are currently in Australia, and how many of them are reported to be sleeping rough, homeless on the streets?

You mentioned that a family of four, where the main earner has lost their job, receives a total of $2,732.60 per fortnight in government support. How much assistance do undocumented immigrants receive? Aren’t they also human beings? How do they survive without any welfare support? For someone from a developing country, $5,465.20 per month is a significant sum.

I’m not familiar with the Australian welfare system specifically, but in other countries with well-developed benefit systems, housing assistance is typically provided separately from general living support. Especially for families with underage children, authorities often ensure accommodation is arranged and paid for. Ignoring such cases would lead to public outcry and media coverage about neglecting children’s rights.

 

[harryopal1]

I actually did not intend to continue this discussion, but since my name has been mentioned, I feel compelled to clarify my previous comments.

I don’t fully understand the reasons behind dismantling the tent camps. Is it because the land is privately owned and being used illegally? Or is it state-owned land required for an infrastructure project?

Since I’m not fully informed on the matter, I prefer not to comment further. Similar actions are also taken in both developing and developed countries. I don’t wish to engage in another debate about whether it’s justified or not.

Referring back to my earlier comparison: how many undocumented immigrants are currently in Australia, and how many of them are reported to be sleeping rough, homeless on the streets?

You mentioned that a family of four, where the main earner has lost their job, receives a total of $2,732.60 per fortnight in government support. How much assistance do undocumented immigrants receive? Aren’t they also human beings? How do they survive without any welfare support? For someone from a developing country, $5,465.20 per month is a significant sum.

I’m not familiar with the Australian welfare system specifically, but in other countries with well-developed benefit systems, housing assistance is typically provided separately from general living support. Especially for families with underage children, authorities often ensure accommodation is arranged and paid for. Ignoring such cases would lead to public outcry and media coverage about neglecting children’s rights.

Temanku, I put up this new post simply to provide you with relevant information as to the actual state of affairs in Australia regarding homelessness as previously you seemed unable to accept that such a condition might exist in a developed country like Australia.

Yes, " For someone from a developing country, $5,465.20 per month is a significant sum." But the circumstances are so different. One could live quite well in Indonesia on that amount but for a family in Australia... not so.

As to your questions about undocumented migrants, there are believed to be about 70,000 illegal and undocumented migrants in Australia. And they are not eligible for support. Many may receive emergency medical care assistance from voluntary organizations but it is a miserable existence. The same situation applies in most developed countries and, as you see, America is grabbing illegals off the streets or anywhere and deporting them.

Homeless legal and newly arrived migrants are apparently over represented in homeless numbers in Australia.

Legally entered migrants are usually offered visas on the basis of their having skill or finance which would make them self supporting. Migrant refugees allowed residence on humanitarian grounds can access support service including Medicare and have an entitlement of $24,500 a year. A couple with two children would be entitled to just over $59,000 a year.

(Forgot to reply regarding parks. These are owned by local councils and the rules do not allow illegal camping. However, this denies the sad state of affairs for these homeless people. Remove them if there are reasosnable alternatives but at the moment for many there are no alternatives._)

 

[pantaiema]

Temanku, I put up this new post simply to provide you with relevant information as to the actual state of affairs in Australia regarding homelessness as previously you seemed unable to accept that such a condition might exist in a developed country like Australia.

Yes, " For someone from a developing country, $5,465.20 per month is a significant sum." But the circumstances are so different. One could live quite well in Indonesia on that amount but for a family in Australia... not so.

As to your questions about undocumented migrants, there are believed to be about 70,000 illegal and undocumented migrants in Australia. And they are not eligible for support. Many may receive emergency medical care assistance from voluntary organizations but it is a miserable existence. The same situation applies in most developed countries and, as you see, America is grabbing illegals off the streets or anywhere and deporting them.

Homeless legal and newly arrived migrants are apparently over represented in homeless numbers in Australia.

Legally entered migrants are usually offered visas on the basis of their having skill or finance which would make them self supporting. Migrant refugess allowed residence on humanitarian grounds can access support service including Medicare and have an entitlement of $24,500 a year. A couple with two children would be entitled to just over $59,000 a year.

I never say such a condition does not exist in a developed country like Australia. In fact such problem have been reported anywhere in the world.

Refugees are fundamentally different from undocumented immigrants. Generally, undocumented immigrants are not eligible for public benefits. They also do not receive any government assistance, let alone accommodation. Yes, for illegal immigrants, the temporary accommodation may be provided, but it generally functions as a detention centre in preparation for future removal.

For these undocumented immigrants, emergency healthcare may be provided only in critical situations for humanitarian reasons, such as in the case of a serious accident, life threatening injury. So now compare them with those who receive $5,465.20 per month. Please differentiate between illegal immigrants and individuals who have applied for asylum and whose cases are still under review.

Likewise, legal migrants, often highly skilled professionals or wealthy individuals who contribute significantly to the economy, typically do not qualify for public welfare benefits either.

 

[harryopal1]

" Please differentiate between illegal immigrants and individuals who have applied for asylum and whose cases are still under review." People whose cases are under review might receive limited assistance. Qualified migrants might have to wait up to four years before being entitled to the full range of possible benefits.
An application I made for my WNI wife was with with me in Australia took about a year to be finalized but she then immediately became eligible for Medicare.

 

[pantaiema]

" Please differentiate between illegal immigrants and individuals who have applied for asylum and whose cases are still under review." People whose cases are under review might receive limited assistance. Qualified migrants might have to wait up to four years before being entitled to the full range of possible benefits.
An application I made for my WNI wife was with with me in Australia took about a year to be finalized but she then immediately became eligible for Medicare.

And what is the correlation between your wife and homeless people, illegal immigrants ?? Are illegal immigrants entitled to healthcare benefit ??

 

[harryopal1]

No correlation between my wife and homeless people You asked a series of questions as to entitlements of asylum seekers, legal and illegal migrants. Reference to my wife receiving the Medicare entitlement just reflects the every changing rules with immigration. New migrants with an Australian spouse receive entitlements much more quickly than other categories of migrants.