Gloria Natapradja: Young girl's dream crushed by Indonesian citizenship law

[Nasigan]

Indeed very good news, but what happened with this overzealous police officer (general?) was he also invited for lunch with the President and Gloria?

 

[Nimbus]

Good for him or them or who ever. It was the right move except I wouldn't have singled her out for the invitation. It was a team to begin with.

Since she was singled out for this humiliation, I don't mind her getting special honor from the president as compensation. Common sense and compassion prevail today in Indonesia, can't happen too often. She is still in high school for god's sake, a minor committing no crime but treated like one.

 

[Davita]

Just watched a very proud Gloria, giving her salute, at the lowering of the RI flag at sunset.
I agree with others that the outcome is a very good answer to a very badly handled situation. The issue for Gloria is probably over and she can get on with her life with a good memory but, next week, there should be investigations on how this, and the Minister for Energy fracas, has been so badly mishandled.
The President needs to command his Cabinet to be unified otherwise it will fragment.....and so will his leadership.

I also hope the media keep up the pressure for the team he put together to investigate dual-nationality, a while back, comes up with some report.

From Jakpost three years ago....http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2013/08/24/indonesia-seeing-positive-signs-dual-citizenship.html

 

[Davita]

There is an article in today's Jakarta Post page 3 regarding this case....
Gloria's mother is claiming that her daughter was discriminated by the conditions of article 41 where children, of mixed parents (WNI & WNA), are given dual-nationality status in Indonesia...but anyone born before 2006 had only 4 years to apply.
She is taking the case to the Constitutional Court and being assisted by the mixed-marriage group PERCA.

 

[Davita]

The Constitutional Court yesterday heard from some mixed-marriage spouses about dual-nationality for children.....if anyone hears the verdict kindly post.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2016/11/12/citizenship-law-tears-family-apart.html

 

[Davita]

Bad news for Gloria and others like her.....The Constitutional Court yesterday rejected the petition....

"The court said it could not find any legal basis to grant the judicial review request filed by Ira Natapradja Hamel, whose daughter Gloria Natapradja Hamel lost the chance to obtain Indonesian citizenship after the 2006 Citizenship Law was enacted."

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...rejects-petition-against-citizenship-law.html

 

[harryopal1]

The whole point of having laws is to make life as difficult as possible. Australia is presently facing a the prospect of the Federal Government losing office as one of their senators has a parent who is a New Zealand citizen. Even if you are born in Australia you automatically have New Zealand citizenship if you have a New Zealander parent. Our parliamentary rules prohibit persons with dual citizenship from becoming a parliamentarian or senator.
If people will vote for me at the next election and I become Prime Minister of Australia I will set up special ministry to be called The Ministry for Uncomplicating Things. And we will immediately begin slashing away at red tape and ridiculous rules and regulations. And, if I get a Kitas visa and then Kitap and I am asked to become President after Jokowi steps down I will introduce a similar Ministery for Uncomplicating Things in Indonesia.

 

[Davita]

And, if I get a Kitas visa and then Kitap and I am asked to become President after Jokowi steps down I will introduce a similar Ministery for Uncomplicating Things in Indonesia.

Sorry Harry...these are the requirements to become a President of Indonesia....

2008 Law No. 42 Regarding Presidential and Vice-Presidential Elections:
The presidential candidate must:

• believe in the one and only God;
• have been an Indonesian citizen since his/her birth, who has not willingly become a citizen of another nation;
• have not betrayed the nation, and has not been involved in any corruption or other criminal activity;
• be physically and mentally capable of performing the duties;
• be a permanent resident in the territory of the Republic of Indonesia;
• have reported his/her wealth to the Corruption Eradication Commission;
• have no debt individually or collectively that can create a loss for the state;
• have not been declared bankrupt by a court decision;
• never been involved in any despicable act;
• be registered as a voter;
• be registered as a tax payer and have paid taxes for at least the last five years;
• have never previously served as president for two terms;
• faithful to Pancasila, the 1945 Constitution, and the vision of the Indonesian Declaration of Independence;
• have never been sentenced to jail for more than five years;
• not be less than 35 years of age;
• have attended school at least to the Senior High School or other at the same level;
• never have been a member of the Communist Party of Indonesia or the mass organisation of that party;
• have a vision, mission, and programs to execute the office of president.

What a pity the USA Constitution doesn't have the same standards.

 

[Davita]

President Trump is bringing up the issue of DACA which is the concern of nearly a million children from illegal immigrants who never documented their children and who may now be facing deportation.... http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/04/trump-congress-dreamers-daca-242310.

This has similarity to Gloria who's mother simply was unaware she needed to document her daughter as a WNI before a deadline. The Indonesian Supreme Court has now overruled her appeal so, although unlikely Gloria will be deported, it is possible and, after she is 21, she will be seen as a foreigner in a country she was born and has only ever known....and will need a visa to remain.

Maybe Trump is taking a leaf from Indonesia's harsh rules in this respect.

 

[Supir Angkot]

He may be copying from Indo but the deporter-in-chief is ruthlesshly tripling ‘em down and making ‘em his own by building the wall, passing Muslim ban and now killing DACA.

 

[Asun]

DACA has always been presidential overreach by deferring executive enforcement unilaterally. Obama knew well that it can be overturned by the next guy or the next next guy in office any time. The proper way is to get it legislated through Congress which is what Trump is doing right now.

 

[dafluff]

This has similarity to Gloria who's mother simply was unaware she needed to document her daughter as a WNI before a deadline. The Indonesian Supreme Court has now overruled her appeal so, although unlikely Gloria will be deported, it is possible and, after she is 21, she will be seen as a foreigner in a country she was born and has only ever known....and will need a visa to remain.

Maybe Trump is taking a leaf from Indonesia's harsh rules in this respect.

There is almost no similarity. Gloria has a WNI mother, who can sponsor her for KITAP, which I'm guessing she is on now. She can apply for citizenship immediately, as she has fulfilled the part of living in Indonesia for over 5 years continuously. There is zero chance she will be deported.

In fact the Supreme Court decision only affects whether her petition for citizenship is seen as a dual citizenship giving up foreign citizenship, or a foreigner gaining Indonesian citizenship. The main difference being that the latter costs about Rp 45 juta more.

In fact none of this is a big deal, and Gloria is in the same shoes as thousands of other mixed marriage kids prior to the 2006 law, including myself.

 

[Davita]

DACA has always been presidential overreach by deferring executive enforcement unilaterally. Obama knew well that it can be overturned by the next guy or the next next guy in office any time. The proper way is to get it legislated through Congress which is what Trump is doing right now.

The background to this is here....
"Republican leaders from 10 states, led by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, gave President Trump a deadline of Sept. 5 to end DACA or they'd sue. They believe the program is an abuse of executive power, and feel that only Congress can provide such a broad "amnesty" to any group of undocumented immigrants."

If Trump's real intent is to process this executive order by Congress, to have it ratified, he needs to articulate that. I believe he will make a speech on the subject today...I'll be interested to listen.

 

[Davita]

There is almost no similarity. Gloria has a WNI mother, who can sponsor her for KITAP, which I'm guessing she is on now. She can apply for citizenship immediately, as she has fulfilled the part of living in Indonesia for over 5 years continuously. There is zero chance she will be deported.

In fact the Supreme Court decision only affects whether her petition for citizenship is seen as a dual citizenship giving up foreign citizenship, or a foreigner gaining Indonesian citizenship. The main difference being that the latter costs about Rp 45 juta more.

In fact none of this is a big deal, and Gloria is in the same shoes as thousands of other mixed marriage kids prior to the 2006 law, including myself.

I think you are choosing your own perspective of what I said and I wonder why you mention it...your description of her was suffice to make your point.

The similarity I was referring is that Gloria was a child, and had no input to her status, and neither do the children under DACA.

 

[Asun]

The background to this is here....
"Republican leaders from 10 states, led by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, gave President Trump a deadline of Sept. 5 to end DACA or they'd sue. They believe the program is an abuse of executive power, and feel that only Congress can provide such a broad "amnesty" to any group of undocumented immigrants."

If Trump's real intent is to process this executive order by Congress, to have it ratified, he needs to articulate that. I believe he will make a speech on the subject today...I'll be interested to listen.

The official press release is here:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/09/05/statement-president-donald-j-trump

 

[Davita]

The official press release is here:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/09/05/statement-president-donald-j-trump

Many thanks for that info Asun....it means I now don't have to listen to him and watch his body language, pouty mouth and his fat fingers making odd gestures.

I laughed when I got to this part....."There can be no path to principled immigration reform if the executive branch is able to rewrite or nullify federal laws at will."

He's the President who said he has signed more executive orders than any President before him.

 

[Davita]

In fact none of this is a big deal, and Gloria is in the same shoes as thousands of other mixed marriage kids prior to the 2006 law, including myself.

I confess i don't know much about this law but wasn't it promulgated to give all children of mixed-marriage the opportunity to be of dual-nationality until becoming adult?
I thought the Gloria situation came about because her mother was unaware there was a time limit to register for that opportunity.
I also thought all subsequent children, born since the enactment, are still offered that opening.

 

[fastpitch17]

When Obama signed the executive order we specifically stated that it was temporary and needed to be addressed in the Legislature. They never did anything. Some say it was unconstitutional and others say he had the right to do it. Still, we get to today. The AG makes the announcement it's over. States gave him an ultimatum that it ends or they sue. The AG didn't think he could defend it so Trump ended it.

Now, you have 800,000 young people the US has largely supported and educated at a very large financial cost. Those young people have been educated and many are now heading into or are already into starting careers of their own. Most only know English and the American way of life. Since they are entering the work force, they will be giving back those finances that were used for them in the form of increased taxes. It would seem, they will be now turned away from any opportunity to pay back the government. Seems an opportunity will be missed. At the same time, it seems to me that everyone that is targeted by Trump is a potential Democratic voter and perhaps this is one of his ways to eliminate those. Too bad for the RNP since they have been out trying to round up hispanic support.

This is the worst time for congress to get this added burden due to their schedule already being so full for the next 6 months. Congress just needs to find a way to give clemency to the dreamers only. Will Trump sign it? Probably not but then he will have to own it.

 

[dafluff]

I think you are choosing your own perspective of what I said and I wonder why you mention it...your description of her was suffice to make your point.

The similarity I was referring is that Gloria was a child, and had no input to her status, and neither do the children under DACA.

I mention it because in fact there is almost no similarity between Gloria and DACA kids, other than that they are minors with immigration problems. Even the level of immigration problems are vastly different. Gloria has a citizen mother, is legally in Indonesia, and can apply for citizenship. The only issue that the court petition affects is whether her path to citizenship is as a dual-national child giving up her foreign nationality, or whether it is as a foreigner gaining Indonesian citizenship. In either case she ends up with WNI, and loses her foreign citizenship. The only substantial difference between the two is the fee.

I confess i don't know much about this law but wasn't it promulgated to give all children of mixed-marriage the opportunity to be of dual-nationality until becoming adult?
I thought the Gloria situation came about because her mother was unaware there was a time limit to register for that opportunity.
I also thought all subsequent children, born since the enactment, are still offered that opening.

This is correct. Kids born after 2006 are automatically dual citizenship eligible. However, since Gloria was born prior to 2006, her mother had to register her prior to a deadline (I think it was 2010 or so, it was fairly generous) to be eligible. Since her mother didn't do this, she is still in the same status as all other mixed marriage kids prior to 2006 law, namely foreigners with citizenship deriving from the father only. As she has now lived in Indonesia beyond the required time, she can apply for citizenship.

 

[Davita]

However, since Gloria was born prior to 2006, her mother had to register her prior to a deadline (I think it was 2010 or so, it was fairly generous) to be eligible. Since her mother didn't do this, she is still in the same status as all other mixed marriage kids prior to 2006 law, namely foreigners with citizenship deriving from the father only.

I presume you mean those that the parents also didn't register prior to the deadline....were there that many...seems you suggested there are thousands yet I've only heard about Gloria.