Waste Management in Indonesia

[pantaiema]

Huh? What would the looting be over again? The cost of a bag?

If it were just one plastic bag, it might not seem like a big deal. But what about daily shopping? Every time you visit the public market and purchase items from various vendors on the same day, you receive a plastic bag. Even for small purchases like toothpaste or a snack from a neighbourhood store, you’re typically given a plastic bag, right ? Also typically degradable bags are not as strong as transitional plastic bags, so for relatively heavy item it will need to be doubled. And we’re talking about this issue over the long term, concerning households who are already struggling with their basic needs.

Another important point is that people naturally tend to go for the cheaper option, especially when there’s no immediate consequence. Why would anyone choose a biodegradable plastic bag if it costs two to three times more than regular plastic? Some would but there might also be also enough people who do not. Even with laws or regulations in place, people will often find ways around them, especially if enforcement is weak or inconsistent. Think about the people dumping their rubbish in the river. People burn their rubbish in their home. If they burn plastic at home will it be any significant different whether it is degradable or non degradable plastics ? It might also that this biodegradable plastic bags will end up in tofu factory used as a fuel, not in the land fill.

 

[Bob]

If it were just one plastic bag, it might not seem like a big deal. But what about daily shopping? Every time you visit the public market and purchase items from various vendors on the same day, you receive a plastic bag. Even for small purchases like toothpaste or a snack from a neighbourhood store, you’re typically given a plastic bag, right ? Also typically degradable bags are not as strong as transitional plastic bags, so for relatively heavy item it will need to be doubled. And we’re talking about this issue over the long term, concerning households who are already struggling with their basic needs.

Another important point is that people naturally tend to go for the cheaper option, especially when there’s no immediate consequence. Why would anyone choose a biodegradable plastic bag if it costs two to three times more than regular plastic? Some would but there might also be also enough people who do not. Even with laws or regulations in place, people will often find ways around them, especially if enforcement is weak or inconsistent. Think about the people dumping their rubbish in the river. People burn their rubbish in their home. If they burn plastic at home will it be any significant different whether it is degradable or non degradable plastics ? It might also that this biodegradable plastic bags will end up in tofu factory used as a fuel, not in the land fill.

No, not right. No plastic bags in Jakarta. People use and reuse cloth bags, as people anywhere can.
People aren't going to riot over the cost of plastic or green biodegradable or paper or cloth bags. It's silly to think they will.
You're right that disposal of bags, and other trash, should be managed correctly. There's a lot of room for improvement there.

 

[Shadrach]

this issue is much bigger than the plastic bags at stores. Look at the beaches around the world and see them covered in all shapes of plastsic, that won't breakdown for many years. There are Now Entire Islands of plastic that has collected together in the Ocean!
Make the Governments, Make the Plastic Manufacturers to clean up the Rubbish now, and Stop using Petroleum oul to make Plastic!
This issue is forgotten, and ignored because of Greed! the corporations lobby the Governments, the politicians receive money under the table, No One making the rules Care! So we have these NGO's out there forming small groups cleaning beaches, rivers, the Ocean, and asking the public for donations.
As long as the Governments Don't Act. nothing will Change!

 

[pantaiema]

No, not right. No plastic bags in Jakarta. People use and reuse cloth bags, as people anywhere can.
People aren't going to riot over the cost of plastic or green biodegradable or paper or cloth bags. It's silly to think they will.
You're right that disposal of bags, and other trash, should be managed correctly. There's a lot of room for improvement there.

This is Jakarta / greater Jakarta - No plastic bags ??

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All of the pictures, video clips were taken in year 2020 onward. There are tons of similar pictures, video clips especially in the areas nearby North, south Jakarta or greater Jakarta if you search it. For those who want to see it with their own eyes, just take a walk around the areas where economically disadvantaged communities live, such as along Jakarta's riversides or near the railway tracks and observe the number of plastic bags scattered there.

This situation highlights the classical outcome, despite regulations banning single-use plastic bags already in place, people will continue using them if there are significantly cheaper alternatives. This is especially true when enforcement is difficult or non-existent. Are they going to put all of the offenders, the people, the owner of small businesses in jail for failing to pay the fine ?? Dare to do that ?? Do that, that is where you will be watching riot over the cost of plastic or green biodegradable or paper or cloth bags, is it still silly to think as such ???

Sustainability experts, have long anticipated this sort of outcome, as discussed in the three pillars 3Es and 3Ps frameworks (refer to Posts #29 and #35). You focus on Environment but if you are ignoring the other 2Es, Economics and Equity/Social (e.g people, small business pocket), it won't work or it won't be sustainable.

On top of that, how can the waste problem be resolved by simply asking people to buy a much expensive alternatives when the authorities do not collect garbage consistently, due to a shortage of waste processing facilities and insufficient waste collection services? In the past, when public attention forced action, the local government often just redirected waste services from one region to another just to save face, leaving other areas neglected and unserviced. It is similar to 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul'.

If the necessary facilities aren't there or simply aren't enough, no matter how much effort you put in, how hard you try, it will be just like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

 

[Shadrach]

This is Jakarta / greater Jakarta - No plastic bags ??

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View attachment 4912


All of the pictures, video clips were taken after 2020. There are tons of similar pictures, video clips especially in the areas nearby North, south Jakarta or greater Jakarta if you search it. For those who want to see it with their own eyes, just take a walk around the areas where economically disadvantaged communities live, such as along Jakarta's riversides or near the railway tracks and observe the number of plastic bags scattered there.

This situation highlights the classical outcome, despite regulations banning single-use plastic bags already in place, people will continue using them if there are significantly cheaper alternatives. This is especially true when enforcement is difficult or non-existent. Are they going to put all of the offenders, the people, the owner of small businesses in jail for failing to pay the fine ?? Dare to do that ?? Do that, that is where you will be watching riot over the cost of plastic or green biodegradable or paper or cloth bags, is it still silly to think as such ???

Sustainability experts, have long anticipated this sort of outcome, as discussed in the three pillars 3Es and 3Ps frameworks (refer to Posts #29 and #35). You focus on Environment but if you are ignoring the other 2Es, Economics and Equity/Social (e.g people, small business pocket), it won't work or it won't be sustainable.

On top of that, how can the waste problem be resolved by simply asking people to buy a much expensive alternatives when the authorities do not collect garbage consistently, due to a shortage of waste processing facilities and insufficient waste collection services? In the past, when public attention forced action, the government often redirected waste services from one region to another just to save face, leaving other areas neglected and unserviced.

If the necessary facilities aren't there or simply aren't enough, no matter how much effort you put in, how hard you try, the problem won't be resolved.

So Nothing gets done, and the mountains of Rubbish Grow! See how intelligent Humans Are?

 

[pantaiema]

So Nothing gets done, and the mountains of Rubbish Grow! See how intelligent Humans Are?

Examine the three pillars, the 3Es, and the 3Ps frameworks of sustainability. These models were developed by international experts under the commission of the United Nations and have been adopted by numerous global institutions, including the World Bank. They are extensively documented in scholarly publications and academic journals. This is credible, evidence-based work, not chit chat, personal opinions from random people on the internet.

While education and intelligence may have some influence, their role in this situation is minimal and not the root of the problem. When there’s a lack of waste collection services and proper waste processing facilities, where are people expected to dispose of their garbage? Let it rot and stink in their own houses, shops ?? Even highly intelligent individuals would face difficulties in such circumstances. With no viable alternatives, people often resort to taking matters into their own hands, such as dumping waste into rivers or along roadsides.

I am aware that If you provoke the opinion those who are dumping their rubbish in the river, by the roadside are intelligent people like in post #27, it will likely to face strong reaction. You might want to call them thieves, environmental criminals, but they are certainly not stupid or naive.

 

[Bob]

This is Jakarta / greater Jakarta - No plastic bags ??

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View attachment 4912


All of the pictures, video clips were taken in year 2020 onward. There are tons of similar pictures, video clips especially in the areas nearby North, south Jakarta or greater Jakarta if you search it. For those who want to see it with their own eyes, just take a walk around the areas where economically disadvantaged communities live, such as along Jakarta's riversides or near the railway tracks and observe the number of plastic bags scattered there.

This situation highlights the classical outcome, despite regulations banning single-use plastic bags already in place, people will continue using them if there are significantly cheaper alternatives. This is especially true when enforcement is difficult or non-existent. Are they going to put all of the offenders, the people, the owner of small businesses in jail for failing to pay the fine ?? Dare to do that ?? Do that, that is where you will be watching riot over the cost of plastic or green biodegradable or paper or cloth bags, is it still silly to think as such ???

Sustainability experts, have long anticipated this sort of outcome, as discussed in the three pillars 3Es and 3Ps frameworks (refer to Posts #29 and #35). You focus on Environment but if you are ignoring the other 2Es, Economics and Equity/Social (e.g people, small business pocket), it won't work or it won't be sustainable.

On top of that, how can the waste problem be resolved by simply asking people to buy a much expensive alternatives when the authorities do not collect garbage consistently, due to a shortage of waste processing facilities and insufficient waste collection services? In the past, when public attention forced action, the local government often just redirected waste services from one region to another just to save face, leaving other areas neglected and unserviced. It is similar to 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul'.

If the necessary facilities aren't there or simply aren't enough, no matter how much effort you put in, how hard you try, it will be just like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

You had written 'when you go to the market your purchases come in plastic bags, even small things'. That isn't so, and you writing a thousand word essay that misses the point doesn't make it so. It's been years since I got a plastic bag with a purchase in Jakarta, hence my 'no plastic bags in Jakarta' comment. I should have written a longer sentence saying 'no, when you go to the market in Jakarta your purchases don't come in plastic bags' but I figured that meaning would be obvious to all. It looks like I figured incorrectly.

 

[Balifrog]

You had written 'when you go to the market your purchases come in plastic bags, even small things'. That isn't so, and you writing a thousand word essay that misses the point doesn't make it so. It's been years since I got a plastic bag with a purchase in Jakarta, hence my 'no plastic bags in Jakarta' comment. I should have written a longer sentence saying 'no, when you go to the market in Jakarta your purchases don't come in plastic bags' but I figured that meaning would be obvious to all. It looks like I figured incorrectly.

In Bali at the market, in street warungs it is all plastic bags.
At any supermarket you still (luckily) have plastic bags for fresh fruit and vegetables, fish or meat sections.
We always carry our re usable bag(s), but systematically will end up with several plastic bags, which we later use as "transit" garbage bag in the kitchen, before it goes in the "main" plastic garbage bag lining the garbage bin.

And don't start me on online purchases where everything come in multiple plastic bubble wraps and main plastic wrapping.....

 

[pantaiema]

You had written 'when you go to the market your purchases come in plastic bags, even small things'. That isn't so, and you writing a thousand word essay that misses the point doesn't make it so. It's been years since I got a plastic bag with a purchase in Jakarta, hence my 'no plastic bags in Jakarta' comment. I should have written a longer sentence saying 'no, when you go to the market in Jakarta your purchases don't come in plastic bags' but I figured that meaning would be obvious to all. It looks like I figured incorrectly.

This is what I said post #41
"Every time you visit the public market and purchase items from various vendors on the same day, you receive a plastic bag. Even for small purchases like toothpaste or a snack from a neighbourhood store, you’re typically given a plastic bag, right ?"

When you shop at a public market in Jakarta, every item you purchase usually you will be given plastic bag. Buy toiletries like toothpaste and soap you're given one bag, Pick up a kilogram of apples another bag, Stop by the meat vendor one more bag. Visit the fish stall yet another, buy some vegetables you're given one bag, and then buy traditional cake another bag . That is six plastic bags in just a single market trip.

Customers also tend to prefer receiving multiple plastic bags from the vendor because it saves them the cost of buying new ones. They could reuse these bags at home to pack household waste to be dumped in the river, by the roadside when proper disposal options aren't available nearby. Doing it this way, this bag is used as multiple use plastic bag, and save money for these people isn't it ??

Also, in addition to all the videos, pictures shared in post #44, this one clearly shows a vendor handing over a plastic bag to customer in Jakarta.

Local Vegetables 🥦 Market in Jakarta #viral #vegetables

We went to buy vegetables and fruites in local vegetables market in Jakarta.Traditional markets or usually known as 'wet markets' are still packed in Jakarta...

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At public markets, you'll certanly not receive paper bag similar to the ones you get when shopping at high-end stores like Prada, Louis Vuitton, or perfume boutiques in Jakarta shopping malls, you will get plastic bags. But even in big supermarket, such as Transmart Carrefour, Hypermart etc not just in the public market, you will still get plastic bag if you buy items like meat, chicken, fruits, vegetables, fish and other types of seafoods

 

[Balifrog]

Well.....

 

[jstar]

I don’t really get the prohibition on single use small plastic water bottles; you can still buy them everywhere.

In places like the entrance of Grand Lucky (Sanur) and also malls like MAG and MKG in Jakarta they have these cool machines to return and recycle PET bottles. You need to install an app for that. But every time I see someone inserting bottles they get refused. Bit like in Europe btw, seems to be technically difficult.

 

[Shadrach]

I don’t really get the prohibition on single use small plastic water bottles; you can still buy them everywhere.

In places like the entrance of Grand Lucky (Sanur) and also malls like MAG and MKG in Jakarta they have these cool machines to return and recycle PET bottles. You need to install an app for that. But every time I see someone inserting bottles they get refused. Bit like in Europe btw, seems to be technically difficult.

HaH! I saw the same thing months ago at Grand Lucky! you know that Poor Supermarket in Sanur? Is this just an Indonesian thing that everything is on Jam Karet? (rubber time) I'm sure the store has been told, the machine doesn't work Thousands of Times! There's No communication because no one want's to lose face, so You have to wait and wait, then ask about something again, and they say wait more! Maybe everyone has consumed so much plastic, their brains aren't working right. Or maybe it's from eating mountains of Monsanto GMO rice, and Tofu full of Plastic, with very little nutrition, so everyone is deficient in Vitamins and Minerals?
P.S. And have you noticed that's the number one Rubbish on the beaches!

 

[pantaiema]

Well.....

View attachment 4914

Similar to Bali, in Jakarta, single-use plastic bags have been prohibited since July 1, 2020 via Gubernatorial Regulation No. 142/2019
jakarta-to-ban-single-use-plastic-bags-by-june

APSN | Violations mar first day of Jakarta's plastic bag ban: official

Starting today, Jakarta has officially banned single-use plastic bags at supermarkets, malls, and t

www.asia-pacific-solidarity.net

This regulation applies not only to modern market, mall but also to traditional public markets. The fine is ranging from Rp5m-Rp 25m. Are they going to put the offenders (literally almost all of the vendors) on traditional public market in jail for failing to pay the fine ??

When the alternative option is significantly more expensive and cannot be effectively policed, it becomes impractical and unsustainable. It is against the basic principles of the 3Es and 3Ps of sustainability. Just refer to the video clips and the images shared in Posts #44 and #49 how the Gubernatorial Regulation becomes a mockery.

It is the same issue with people throw garbage into rivers by the roadside or resort to burning their waste due to the lack of adequate waste collection points or processing facilities. Authorities tend to prioritise funding for railway and toll road projects over investing in waste management infrastructure, such as building waste processing centres, increasing the frequency of waste collection services, or constructing more drainage systems and canals to prevent flooding.

In Bali, where a tourist levy has been in place since February 2024, the question arises: where is this money actually going? It's almost certain that the bulk of the funds will end up to top up the salaries of Balinese government officials. Only a small portion may be allocated to improving infrastructure such as roads or waste collection points. Any improvements that are made will likely be concentrated in high-profile areas to con the naive into believing the funds are being used properly.

 

[pantaiema]

This person is very good at deflecting the issue and playing the blame game. What has Koster actually been doing with garbage over the past five years? Since the implementation of the tourism levy in February 2024, where has that money gone? Why hasn't it been used to build more waste processing centres, increase the number of waste collection points, or improve service frequency?

As for the issue with small plastic bottles (not bags filled with trash) ? OMG, you can not just make it up. If you leave a plastic bottle in plain sight on the street, someone from an economically disadvantaged background will likely pick it up as they could easily sell it.

 

[Shadrach]

This person is very good at deflecting the issue and playing the blame game. What has Koster actually been doing with garbage over the past five years? Since the implementation of the tourism levy in February 2024, where has that money gone? Why hasn't it been used to build more waste processing centres, increase the number of waste collection points, or improve service frequency?

As for the issue with small plastic bottles (not bags filled with trash) ? OMG, you can not just make it up. If you leave a plastic bottle in plain sight on the street, someone from an economically disadvantaged background will likely pick it up as they could easily sell it.

View attachment 4928

You keep rambling on, but you say nothing about any solutions! We already know about hollow government degrees, so either give us some solutions to the plastic problem, or move on to another topic! Talk is Cheap!

 

[pantaiema]

You keep rambling on, but you say nothing about any solutions! We already know about hollow government degrees, so either give us some solutions to the plastic problem, or move on to another topic! Talk is Cheap!

Have you reviewed the entire discussion? The generic solution to this issue isn't speculative but it's rooted in well-established sustainability frameworks developed by experts. Specifically, the three pillars of sustainability, commonly referred to as the 3Es (Economy, Environment, and Equity) and/or 3Ps (People, Planet, Profit/Prosperity), offer a comprehensive approach to sustainable solution. These principles are not the product of random internet opinions but have been widely adopted in academic, policy, and planning contexts globally. There are a lot of publications about this from authoritative sources if you want to read it.

This tripartite model reflects the need to maintain balance among economic growth, environmental protection, and social equity. In a way, it echoes the spirit of Montesquieu’s trias politica philosophy, where the separation of powers was designed to ensure long-term stability and sustainability in governance. While Montesquieu focused on political institutions, the sustainability model emphasises balance across societal priorities.

I believe that the relevant authorities are already familiar with this framework, as they likely consult environmental and sustainability experts in their decision-making processes.

Take the Balinese waste problem as a practical example. Providing more waste processing centres and ensuring that garbage collection points are adequately distributed and regularly serviced can advance all three pillars:

• Economy: People are less likely to illegally dump or burn waste if reliable and affordable services are available. This also saves them money and time.
• Equity/Social: Supporting economically disadvantaged communities such as through subsidies for waste disposal promotes social fairness and inclusion.
• Environment: Proper waste collection and processing reduce pollution, conserve resources, and prevent harm to natural ecosystems.

By addressing these areas simultaneously, such a policy does not just mitigate a visible problem (improper waste disposal), but aligns with the deeper principle of sustainability as a balance. This is the kind of systemic thinking that leads to long-term, resilient solutions not just short-term fixes

About the solution you are rambling about do you think the Indonesian government will read the forum like this to find the solution of societal and environment problem ?

About the plastic bottles ? Unlike the plastic bags full of garbage (or might be dog, cat shite), for plastic bottle there is no need to seek a blame game here like what Koster is doing, as you throw this plastic bottle on the street, a lot of economically disadvantage people will take it as they could easily sell it to be recycled. This is one of many examples, she makes Rp100k-150k a day from collecting plastic bottles.

 

[Shadrach]

Have you reviewed the entire discussion? The solution to this issue isn't speculative but it's rooted in well-established sustainability frameworks developed by experts. Specifically, the three pillars of sustainability, commonly referred to as the 3Es (Economy, Environment, and Equity) or 3Ps (People, Planet, Profit), offer a comprehensive approach to sustainable solution. These principles are not the product of random internet opinions but have been widely adopted in academic, policy, and planning contexts globally. There are a lot of publications about this from authoritative sources if you want to read it.

This tripartite model reflects the need to maintain balance among economic growth, environmental protection, and social equity. In a way, it echoes the spirit of Montesquieu’s political philosophy, where the separation of powers was designed to ensure long-term stability in governance. While Montesquieu focused on political institutions, the sustainability model emphasises balance across societal priorities.

I believe that the relevant authorities are already familiar with this framework, as they likely consult environmental and sustainability experts in their decision-making processes. About the solution you are rambling about do you think the Indonesian government will read the forum like this to find the solution of societal and environment problem ?

Take the Balinese waste problem as a practical example. Providing more waste processing centres and ensuring that garbage collection points are adequately distributed and regularly serviced can advance all three pillars:

• Economy: People are less likely to illegally dump or burn waste if reliable and affordable services are available. This also saves them money and time.
• Equity/Social: Supporting economically disadvantaged communities such as through subsidies for waste disposal promotes social fairness and inclusion.
• Environment: Proper waste collection and processing reduce pollution, conserve resources, and prevent harm to natural ecosystems.

By addressing these areas simultaneously, such a policy does not just mitigate a visible problem (improper waste disposal), but aligns with the deeper principle of sustainability as a balance. This is the kind of systemic thinking that leads to long-term, resilient solutions not just short-term fixes

About the small plastic bottle ? Unlike the plastic bags full of garbage, for plastic bottle there is no need to seek a blame game here as you throw this plastic bottle on the street, a lot of economically disadvatge people will take as they could easily sell it. See this is one of many examples

View attachment 4929

This is a great idea, but you forget, this Indonesia, and nobody cares about these 3 concepts! Why do you keep repeating yourself about this subject? Nothing is going to Change until the Government makes the Plastic Producers First pay for Cleaning up what they have created, and make Plastic Biodegradable! And the Police fine People throwing Trash everywhere! This will happen when Pigs can Fly!

 

[pantaiema]

This is a great idea, but you forget, this Indonesia, and nobody cares about these 3 concepts! Why do you keep repeating yourself about this subject? Nothing is going to Change until the Government makes the Plastic Producers First pay for Cleaning up what they have created, and make Plastic Biodegradable! And the Police fine People throwing Trash everywhere! This will happen when Pigs can Fly!

Well this has happened many times. You could also prove it by yourself. Buy pigs from a pig farm in Bali and fly them Garuda Indonesia, Lion Air, Batik Air, etc to Jakarta, you could write your own story about :
Shadrach's pigs fly Garuda Indonesia Airways

This is Maxwell the Geico pig. Did someone just say ... When pigs can fly

 

[Hawk256]

This is a great idea, but you forget, this Indonesia, and nobody cares about these 3 concepts! Why do you keep repeating yourself about this subject? Nothing is going to Change until the Government makes the Plastic Producers First pay for Cleaning up what they have created, and make Plastic Biodegradable! And the Police fine People throwing Trash everywhere! This will happen when Pigs can Fly!

It sounds like you don't have much of a solution to problem either. Complaining just doesn't seem to get anything done and no one has a plan to do it your way. What next?

 

[Saudade]

Finally we went to Pulau Seribu for a few days.
Although we tried to enjoy it as much as we could under the circumstances, I have to say that it was very painful for me to see so much garbage everywhere, it was sad, super super sad, especially in Pulau Tidung, I wanted to cry, an island surrounded by garbage on all sides 360 degrees, they offered us a homestay that the views were of a sea full of garbage, there was no beach in that side, only garbage, there were retaining walls but garbage everywhere, when we were leaving there were three people in the water in a sea of garbage selecting some garbage, I imagine it was picking up plastic, I wanted to cry and I felt that I had to be grateful and give thanks that we could leave the island and it saddened me to leave the people on their island with those circumstances, they have no much choices I guess, I am not sure if that was like in Bali, like in the rainy season, only for a few months or the whole 12 months, terrible sad.
The most of local people they got use to live with that everywhere in Indonesia.
I feel proud when our organic waste bin is fuller than the other bin.